Got A Message from Comcast about abuse violations (1 Viewer)

[Chris Duran]

I don't think it's right that the RIAA and the MPAA are using there power to abuse our privacy rights, and also using there money and power to influence our legislators making laws. Like in this case of Verizon http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...c&sid=95573501 I understand they are trying to protect their property, but damn are we just going to give up all of our privacy rights so they can just demand information and get what ever they want? Banning firewalls? What the hell are they thinking? Do the people making these laws have no clue what they are doing? Did anyone see this? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ch_music_dc_10 It's about a federal court rejecting the shutting down of peer-to-peer software. Looks like it's a blow to the RIAA and MPAA. I think the RIAA and MPAA need to change there thinking, there is demand for songs and movies on the net, and instead of offering legit versions they instead fight and accuse there customers of always wanting to screw them.

 

[JeremyFr]

man this has opened a whole can of worms here.

 

[DaveF]

I'm still a bit confused here. Evan - was this a generic email telling you to avoid some particular websites or was it specific to bootleg files you are distributing?

If the former, I don't know why you'd have any worries.

If the latter, why are you distributing bootleg movies?

 

[BrianB]

Evan - was this a generic email telling you to avoid some particular websites or was it specific to bootleg files you are distributing?

DaveF, go look at the original post - it was directed at him for having a particular film shared on eDonkey, on his computer. So it's the latter.

 

[Travis Olson]

The only way to stop internet piracy is to do away with the internet, which ain't going to happen. I understand that these company's only motivation is the bottom line, but to waste millions of dollars trying to stop something that can't be stopped is pointless.

Maybe if they developed a way to sell, via download, movies encoded with DivX or some other form of MPEG-4 at a reasonable cost they would be able to stop some of it anyway and make more money in the process. I bet a lot of pirates would rather pay a few bucks to get the stuff they want in a few hours with ease then dig through the underground downloading files over the course of a few days.

 

[Jon_Are]

ya know as long as actors are living better lives then me I have absolutley no qualms in shafting them. perhaps if they acted and had a job at mickey D's just to make ends meet, I'd be more apt towards paying for stuff.

Rob, this is one big-ass rationalization that's fooling no one.

Jon

 

[DaveF]

DaveF, go look at the original post - it was directed at him for having a particular film shared on eDonkey, on his computer. So it's the latter.

I'm unfamiliar with "eDonkey" and didn't see anything identifying his computer specifically (the infringing IP address is censored). But it's obvious to everyone else that he is hosting movie rips, so I'll just take your word for it.

 

[BrianB]

For eDonkey, think Kazaa or Napster.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

3. A new movie comes out on dvd. I buy it. I then loan it to a friend, who loans it to his friend, etc, etc, etc on down the line. I'm the one who paid for it. But we are distributing it among friends and people we know until everyone gets a chance to see it.

When you loan someone the original DVD, you are transferring your license to them. As long as you retain no copies of it(that aren't legit, of course you could buy 2 copies of something, just closing a loophole) it's free,clear, and perfectly legal. The illegal part of sharing the movies online comes because you DON'T have a legal copy yourself

 

[MikeAlletto]

When you loan someone the original DVD, you are transferring your license to them. As long as you retain no copies of it(that aren't legit, of course you could buy 2 copies of something, just closing a loophole) it's free,clear, and perfectly legal. The illegal part of sharing the movies online comes because you DON'T have a legal copy yourself.

But someone did. They shared it with someone else, that someone else d/l it. You could say they transfered the license at the point of downloading. How are we to know whether the originator deleted his copy or not. You are assuming they didn't, but you don't know that. Its just a different medium that some people just don't understand the simularities. In order to be guilty you must be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Tape a movie on a VCR off tv. Then pass it onto friends. Off of TV that you can grab over the air so its free. I never bought that movie so I never had a license for it. The network had a license to broadcast it, but nothing proceeds the movie saying that I can or cannot tape it. They aren't going to come after me because I taped it off tv, but now friends have it. The supreme court already stated that VCR's are not illegal.

The only thing the studios can't seem to figure out is this is just another medium just like VCR's. It's just easier to spread stuff. They freaked out when cassettes became popular and look, sales increased. They freaked out when VCR's became popular, but look, sales increased there also. They freaked out with cd burners and made up 'facts' so people can't say sales increase and now its coming back to bite them because cd sales have gone up, but not as much as they want, but instead of blaming themselves because of the quality and price of the product they blame cd burners and college kids who are their biggest customers. They say that there are so many millions of blank cd's bought every month or so, but automatically assume that every single one of them is used to steal music. Basically the studios (movie and music) call every single person who's ever bought a blank cd a pirate. If they would have their way they would put all of us in jail just for buying a blank cd.

Just like murder laws, its not just black or white, there are grey areas in between. One of these days the studios are going to go after some kid in college or family and those people will actually fight back instead of just folding under the money the studios can throw at the lawyers. If it was such a clear cut case of right vs wrong all these p2p systems would have been shutdown by now and a bunch of people would be fined or in jail. Thats not happening and even the courts can't agree on whats right or wrong.

Just my opinions, some of yours obviously differ, but I bet there are many of those that agree with me but are too afraid to speak their minds. Thats cool too, whatever floats your boat. But in the end, its just a movie or music track.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Considering there are no legal versions of movies that you can save to your hard drive right now, it's a moot point. The copy is NOT LICENSED, therefore the point is moot

Taping something off of TV is fair use, but if you make copies for other people, you are breaking the law (though I doubt they'll be busting down your door)

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Jeff, you didn't go far enough with that one. If you tape a show and pass it to a friend, that is illegal. The taping is for your use only.

The same goes for a DVD. If you buy it, you have the license to watch it forever and ever, but if you loan it to a friend, that is illegal. Your friend didn't buy it, so he/she/it has no legal right to view it.

I realize that prosecuting this is stupid. How many families have enough money to pay the fine, let along the court costs? (Hey, maaybe an actor)

Anyway, you don't steal something (regardless of wheather or not you personally consider it illegal) and then show it off. In this case, making an AVI rip available publically for everyone to see. PLease delete the stupid movie, or at least put it in a place where I cannot see it!!!!!

Glenn

 

[Steve Bjorg]

Evan & Mike,

I simply can't believe that you don't see the difference between fair use and stealing. It's obvious that you only see this issue from your side and that you have never participated in creating someting of value that is available in digital form. If you don't agree with the garbage that some studios produce then don't buy it, and certainly don't steal it. Personally, I was infuriated by your opinions on this matter and while I'm a proponent of free speach, inciting and defending illegal behavior is simply pushing the envelope too much. I hope that you both will come to your senses before you experience the repercussions or do permanent damage in promoting these activities.

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Glenn, I do believe you're wrong about loaning DVDs. The DMCA may have trampled all over Fair Use but it did not overturn the First Sale doctrine which says that after the copyright owner has sold a copy, he no longer has control of the disposition of that copy. As long as that copy isn't being copied or performed in public, the copyright owner can go f*** himself if he thinks he is entitled to a royalty or can put limits on what the buyer can do with it.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Some movie companies do put "Unauthorized rental, sale, copying and lending" in their copyright notice. However if some studio brought a lawsuit against an individual for loaning out their perfectly legit DVDs, they'd be thrown out of court so fast it'd make DVD's RPMs look slow. I honestly don't think it would stand up even if they didn't.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Ok, I am not positive, but I thought they would be just like VHS tapes. If I tape a show (in theory) it is illegal for me to give it to my neighbor to see. Of course, he can always come over to my place to view it. Yes, it is silly, and on this small scale it is not enforced.

With a DVD, I bought the license to view it, so if I loan it out, they should pay the royaly too. That's how this thread got started. The free availibilty of the movie was illegal. He cannot loan it out to anybody, even if he did rip it off of his own disk.

Glenn

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Glenn, when you lend them the disc, you are lending the license to view with it

Look at it this way: The license IS THE DISC, not the entity that paid for it

 

[Glenn Overholt]

But wasn't that the original problem? If the liscense went with the movie and Evan had a policy where only one person could download and view the movie at a time, and then tell him, ok, it was great. I've deleated it, so you can loan it out to someone else now, there wouldn't be any problem.

The more I think about it, I feel that the liscense is not the disk. You purchase the license, and it happens to come on a disk. The same thinking goes for software. We are not supposed to loan out a game that we got to anyone else.

What the studios are not doing, but really could, would be to have us send in a proof of purchase with our names attached. With serial numbers on the DVD's, they could almost restrict playback to only machines that I own. (This could be what might happen in the future, especially if our gear is wired into our phone lines.) TIVO users - beware!

Glenn

 

[Andy Olivera]

For the sake of argument, he distributed a copy of the disc, which is illegal. The CD/DVD most certainly is the license. Fair use says you can copy it for your own personal use, not the use of others. First sale says the original disc can be sold/loaned/traded at the buyer's discretion.

Think of it this way: when you buy a CD/DVD, you're paying for the disc; the contents are not your property, but the disc is. You can loan it to a friend or use it as a frisbee; either use is legal so long as the contents never leave the disc.


Serial numbers are already used on software and always get cracked. Companies are wasting money by even bothering with copy protection schemes.

Assuming all our future equipment is online(wired into our phones), how long do you think it would take for someone to crack the serial#/response code? Not long after that you'll have a piece of software that will receive/respond in place of the actual site.

The industry will never produce a code that a dedicated(or bored) hacker can't crack.

 

[Eric Kahn]

2 more points need to be brought up on this

1 The source of the AVI file on his computer would determine weather it is legal or illegal, I know this sounds dumb, but if he is using his computer as a TV recording device (Like Tivo) the Movie might be a legal copy under fair use laws ( I do not know what format these things record in on your computer) this is stretching, I know but possible

2 if he had the movie on his hard drive legally, and it can be done legally, just not from DVD, he might not have realized that it could be "seen" from the net with whatever software he was using for whatever porpose

I have used napster and limewire in the past, I had no way at one time of converting my CD's to MP3 files for my computer, and I still have no way of converting the albums I own to CD so I can play them in my car and allot of them have never been put on CD by the record co's ( I no longer have a cassette deck in my car)

I also have never downloaded a movie from the net, I have downloaded some trailers, but that was only because I had to download and then view them because streaming video would lock up my computer before I upgraded and I have not tried any since I upgraded

Loaning out your DVD's to a friend must be legal, the local library loans them out here, no fees involved at all