Gord and David will Ask the Studios to Account for their Mistakes (1 Viewer)

[Garysb]

You are correct. Publishers control the use of songs in media such as movies, TV shows, and commercials not the songwriters, not the record companies unless they are also the publishers. A famous example are the Beatles songs. Michael Jackson and Sony as co owners of the publishing rights of the Beatles songs determine where the songs are used and not the Beatles or their heirs. They also set the price.
What I am not sure of is who controls which version of a song is used. If the publishers give the rights to "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" can the Beatles and their heirs prevent their version from being used? Would the movie or TV show have to use William Shatner's cover version?

As for the use of syndicated versions of shows I don't think there is any mystery as to why these are used. The shows have previously been recut and the video upgraded to run in the syndicated version. Even to put back unrestored film or video to the existing syndicated versions cost money ( someone must be hired to do the work) and the owners are apparently unable or unwilling to do so.

Aren't both Roseanne and Cosby also part owners of their shows? I would assume if they are, they must have beed aware of the situation and agreed to use the syndicated versions.

Have there been any complaints about the Friends DVDs
which add stuff that didn't air on NBC. These of course are also not the network versions .

Even though there were problems with Season 4, the season sets of I Love Lucy have been excellent. They used some 16 MM footage to fill in missing scenes where 35MM no longer exists. A great deal of time and care was put into these releases . Season 5 even put back the original bumpers leading into the shows and into the middle break with the original sponsors. Maybe they were able to do this because it was no longer sponsored by Philip Morris. You really feel you are watching the show as originaly aired I hope they have sold well.

 

[Jonny P]

Good comments by all so far...

I think that there are multiple reasons for these issues happening. To me, the most horrid of the issues with TV shows is "cut" episodes from syndication.

I don't know much about the Carsey/Werner company, but the seem to be the offender du jour.

I wonder if they own the rights to the original broadcast versions. None of us really knows how these sorts of contracts works. It has always seemed odd to me that none of their shows is "owned" by a big parent studio (like say, Paramount)...

I dunno...it is odd.

Then again, you have to wonder how much involvement they really have in the process.

My wife -- who is incredibly bright and graduated at the top of our class in college -- really has no idea that there is a difference between the syndicated version of a show and the show that appeared on the network.

It is different than when a theatrical movie appears on TV. With a movie, you figure it is cut for content, language and time (in order to fit in a slot and for commercials).

In the case of TV shows -- both broadcast and syndicated -- both have commercials. There are people (many of them probably in the TV and media business) who don't have the foggiest idea that shows get "snipped" for syndication. They probably don't realize that cable channels show more commercials per hour than the networks. They might not even understand why there are "black bars" on DVD movies.

I would also imagine that many of these studios "outsource" the production work on these DVDs -- everything from transferring from tape or film to designing the packaging. I get the sense that a lot of different media companies are benefitting from this process.

The rush to get TV product to market is like the new "gold rush". Literally, they realize there is a large market and want to slap product in packaging and get it out fast.

To me, quality control has suffered greatly in a lot of areas.

Every box set I have purchased in the last 6 months has had major scratching and scuffing on the discs. I never have that problem with movies on discs, but TV shows are a different story.

I didn't used to have that problem at all, but as they have started to produce these things in larger quantities, quality has gone by the wayside.

It is a sad fact, but shoddy product always loses in the marketplace of ideas.

 

[Terry H]

I really don't care about these problems. All I want is a truthful statement. The music has been replaced or it hasn't. Certainly they know if it is replaced... they replaced it. All I'm asking for is the truth about the product so I can make and informed purchase decision. Is the truth too much to ask?

 

[Garysb]

With TV on DVD you just can't preorder if you are concerned about changes as many of us are. You just have to wait for reviews or for people to post to forums like here.

 

[MarkHarrison]

I think the DVD companies should strike back. Put a little disclaimer before the episode that says "This episode originally feature song X by band Y, but we were unable to obtain the rights to this song for Z reason. We appologize for the inconvience". I'd think twice about purchasing anything from those music artists in the future.

I do appreciate that Gord is taking over the alteration lists. I checked on them in the past and found them not to be as usful as I had hoped.

 

[ElijahS]

The problem is, if they do that, it might be that much harder to get ANY music rights from that company in the future.

 

[Brian Himes]

I think fan involvement is a great idea. When MPI was releasing Dark Shadows on VHS they discovered a missing episode. The episode in question was outside of the regular syndicated package of shows (it was an episode from the final year of the show). As ther wasn't a back-up black and white print of that episode, they started contacting the fans for any information on the missing episode and they found a fan that has recorded the entire run of the show on an audio cassette tapes. With the use of stills and the audio tape, MPI was able to reconstruct the missing episode. Also, MPI on several instances relied on the fans to let them know that certain things have been wrong with a particular Dark Shadows release. This has continued with the DVD releases on the show. When the fans complained to MPI that the company that MPI had transfering Dark Shadows to DVD were editing the episodes and 'fixing' several of the sound goofs, MPI put a stop to it. Unfortunately they didn't have the disks redone to correct the corrections, but they did listen to the fans. I can't think of another home video company that has taken as much time and care with a product as MPI has with Dark Shadows. They have really outdone themselves both the VHS and on DVD releases of Dark Shadows. I can't praise them enough.

I wish more companies took the same approach as MPI does.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

All of this talk about alterations and such but I thought I had to ring in on this one:

First, while I respect Dave and Gord's site by reporting news on upcoming TV show releases I doubt these companies will spend much effort in correcting their policy over their releases.

Why?

While there are a lot of entertainment fans online they are only a small poercentage of the actual fans of these shows who walk into a brick and mortar store and purchase their favourite titles. The reason for this is that most don't know enough to go online or that they don't have access and just relay on weekly ads from these stores that appear in the newpapers across the country. These customers keep buying these sets, not aware of this, and keep these TV DVD sets on the best-selling lists.

Secondly, these studios who release these DVD's look at the weekly sales numbers for their individual DVD sets and as long as those numbers remain up there nothing will change. They'll just nod their heads, say they'll look into the problem and go about their merry way.

TV Shows on DVD do a very excellent job at reporting these issues and so does this site but these execs at these companies will continue their practices until their sales figures for each of their DVD releases begins to see an impact.

It's akin to throwing rocks at a wall hoping for some kind of result ...

 

[MichaelScott]

To me the really sad part is how little these studios/companies care about the product they own. They don't care if they come out with incomplete, butcherd, or sloppy sets..to me that's a reflection on what they think of their business and their product. If they don't care, why should we.
I would think the creators of all these shows would be rather annoyed at seeing their artistic visions released in such a incomplete, half assed way.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

While I think that the online community is a small percentage of the overall customer base, as in not everybody that buys a DVD is going to care enough to log online and read about it. I've had the internet influence argument before, and used the idea that the numbers aren't the same.

However, the people that do post online and that do look at this stuff now are more likely to become activists if they are not pleased. Sure, the average consumer might not notice syndication cuts, but they might if the hardcore fans start to get annoyed to the point that they start spreading the word about these products and problems.

While the hardcore fans might not be the biggest percentage of the buying public they are the group that can have the greatest influence, as the hardcore fans are the ones more likely to buy multiple titles. In other words, a hardcore fan might be willing to boycott a studio for its work on a project. It would be like my saying that I don't like the way Fox has handled King of the Hill, so I'm not going to buy M*A*S*H either. (note, I love Fox and think they do good work.)
The average person though, may just have an interest in 1 show or the other and not care beyond that show, so in effect its the hardcores that would buy multiple titles from a studio that can have a profound impact on a studio's bottom line.


I'm not suggesting internet boycotts or anything of that nature, I find both that an petitions to have questionable effectiveness, but internet activism definitely can work, and if you make it your mission to help inform consumers then they will be informed. It might not be enough to change their minds about buying the Cosby Show on DVD, but at least they know, and who knows they might be curious enough to pop online and see what the fuss is about, and learn even more. That's where again a leading website like TSoD taking on an activist role would have a lot of influence.

Plus, I'm sure that when this starts to happen that those that write articles for trade magazines and major newspapers that have done stories about TSoD in the past, might be interested in looking for a good story. Which would then lead to exposure that could get in to the hands of people that don't surf the net, but do read newspapers.

The internet may be a small percentage of the overall consumer base, but it is growing, and it has a loud voice.

 

[Gord Lacey]

That's already happening. I was speaking to someone for a story about the quick "Dukes of Hazzard" releases yesterday, and happened to mention this issue. He was madly typing away and I said, "Oh, is this another story?" His answer, "Oh yeah, you're just filling up my space today!"

Gord

 

[FrancisP]

I am curious about the second season of My Favorite Martian. The box says some of the episodes are cut. I remember a post that said the episodes are not cut but are speeded up. I wonder if anyone can tell me which is correct.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

Great posting Dave even if a bit overdue!

Please dont forget one MAJOR and often overlooked issue though which in my books fgollows right behind the syndicated cuts... PAL SOURCED TRANSFERS!!!


UrbanWorks and others take note!

There's no reason to not aqquire and work from proper master prints of a show and verify that the transfers being used are not from PAL tapes!

NTSC to PAL results in a marked loss in picture quality and image ghosting that is simply the result of sloppy and careless oversights and a lack of effort.

If you are going to bother to do something, do it right!

Especially if you expect customers to support your ventures!

It's ironic that WE the consumer have to relay this information the STUDIOS who are supposed to be well knowledged and competant in this sort of thing as they make money doing it for a living...

 

[Kenny Neal]

The original Lightyear/Warner releases of Elvis: Aloha From Hawaii, via Satellite and Elvis: The Alternate Aloha Concert did this. Both had a clear paragraph on the back which read:

"Collector's Note: Elvis' performance of I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry, I Can't Stop Loving You and Johnny B. Goode in the concert have been deleted from this edition of the video package. Music publishing clearance from the song's owners was up for renewal and an agreement for their continued use could not be reached. However, a complete soundtrack with newly re-mastered sound is available on CD's and tapes from RCA Records."

While it was unfortunate the songs were excluded, that's straightforward honesty I appreciated, and I purchased both discs without hesitation.

BTW, when the deluxe set with both concerts (and more) was released by BMG a year or two ago, all songs were included.

 

[Christi P]

I really appreciate all the work you guys at TVshowsonDVD do! You are an invaluable resource for me.

I hope this works, and the studios who release messed up sets will feel some pressure to fix them (or at least not make the same mistake again).

Maybe at some point, you could try to pressure the studios into making it easier to exchange one bad disc in a boxed set, since it is almost impossible to watch a whole TV season in the 30 day return window.

Christi P.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

Dave, again, what about PAL-NTSC sourced transfers? why not make an issue of that too since it so significantly impacts the quality of a release?

 

[ElijahS]

Is that a major issue, because if it is, I'm not aware of it.

 

[Will_B]

The prophets had it wrong - it's "The Gord shall judge ye"

 

[Gord Lacey]

Marco, are you talking to me, or to a Dave? I'm the one that posted the info to the site and have been responding to things in this thread. Dave Lambert, or any other Dave, hasn't posted a thing in the thread.

Yes, something like a PAL-NTSC sourced transfer would be mentioned on the site if we know about it.

Gord

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

Woops, sorry Gord! :b