Girls and Video Games (1 Viewer)

[Jason Seaver]

Besides, haven't the big hits - historically - been the ones that appealed to a broader audience? I remember reading, back in the day, how part of the success of Centipede, Ms. Pac-Man, and Q*Bert was that they appealed to women just as much as men.

 

[GlenHaag]

This kind of shit gets me so angry, such as homosexuals wanting a frigging holiday, are you fu**ing kidding me?

It may just be me... but when people respond to a thread about someone not wanting to see women being objectified and as objects in a game, and people lash out like this...

I think they have a point. Hopefully something can be done to give women games that they enjoy as much as men enjoy other games. After all, they are 51% percent of populace. I don't think we'd be giving up all that much if there were games that actually treated women better.

Just a suggestion to Bert, most insurance coverage will cover therapy... it seems like you have some issues there. Just a thought.

Glen

 

[Jay Mitchosky]

I'm not even going to read that article as I would probably snap. But that said this thread is more about politics than games. I'll let it ride but if it gets out of hand I'll have to shut it down.

 

[BrianB]

The heck with girls, nobody wanted to play that stupid Barbie game.

I think that sums up "girl games" perfectly - they're as niche orientated as something like Postal is, and none the better off as they're terrible, terrible games. As as been discussed above, the games that girls/women have enjoyed in my (far from exhaustive) experience are not "targeted" at them in any shape or form - though I think it could easily be argued that the Sims is a valid exception to this point. Make good games that concentrate on giving a good experience that aren't 100% aimed at teenage boys' play fantasies (violence, sex etc), and the girls & women will come IMO.

Oh and JayV, for some reason my XBL is permanently locked on that voice mask. I've tried turning it off, but I just cannae do it.

 

[BertFalasco]

Life is a multiplayer game.

Everyone wants to advance, theirs power ego in every human. I know that when I am helping people out, I unfortunately do think of what can mutually be done. I always help people out but it does cross my mind of what can be done for me. People do look out for others, but their is just natural jealousy and natural competition. I have witnessed it in it's nastiest form, my dad. What about companies? (cancer stick companies). Goes on and on

Please don't take what I type personally.

-Bert

 

[Jack Briggs]

Sure, Bert, after you've insulted a broad swath of humanity. Please reread—and heed—Jay Mitchosky's post.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

While many games do feature women as near-perfect examples of what men would want (beautiful, sexy, tough, and things blow up when they run fast), I think that most games today feature male protagonists who are the masculine equivalents of Lara Croft. Sure, guys like to see guys who are badass, but that doesn't mean its an exception. Just because Jin from Tekken is (in my eyes) badass doesn't mean he's not sexy to a girl. The same should go for Lara Croft.

Just because female gamers fall into the minority, that doesn't mean we should cater specifically to their tastes. If a girl doesn't like what kinds of games are being made, then she can go out and change that (by starting a company and making games) or take up another hobby.

It all comes down to majority rules. If a game company made 2 games, one being aimed at girls and the other being aimed at boys, the one aimed at boys would sell better because more boys play games. The funding that went to the game for girls wouldn't be made back with profit and would be deemed a failure. That's why companies don't make games aimed specifically at girls.

And unless someone can point out an example of a game that is ultra-male chauvanist pig, I don't see any problem with the state of games as they are. Most of the BIG games out today with male protagonists are good for either sex (Rayman, Mario, Sonic) and the ones that are aimed more for boys are done as such because they are games that have things girls wouldn't be into (such as things blowing up or blood).

And finally, rather than complain, has anyone ever seen a female gamer who was upset with the state of videogames as they are suggest a solution that made business/common sense?

 

[Paul_Fisher]

Companies are not going to develop games geared toward women because they will not sell enough copies to make any profit.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Just because female gamers fall into the minority, that doesn't mean we should cater specifically to their tastes.

Well, sure, because that statement doesn't make any logical sense. It's worth remembering that just because lady gamers are a minority doesn't mean they should be ignored, either. And just because much of the audience is teen/twenty-something guys definitely doesn't mean that women should be set up as objects of derision.

To a certain extent, it's like the "popcorn movie" argument, where I figure adding good writing wouldn't turn anybody off, but might increase a movie's appeal to those with higher standards. Similarly, keeping "how does this play to girls?" in mind when making a game generally won't turn anybody off, but could give you a larger audience.

 

[Joe Szott]

I don't think anything she said in that article was so bad, she certainly isn't comdemning video games whole scale as gender-biased. She even comes out and says DOAX is alright, so she certainly isn't throwing the baby away with the bathwater.

I think this whole arguement boils down to the same as for any market: once women start buying/playing more games, more developers will start modifying games for that audience. It's just like the movies: when Hollywood figured out that a GF could drag her beau in to see a chick flick as easily as he could drag her into see Die Hard X, suddenly you have "The Hours", "Ya-Ya Sisterhood", ... coming out all over. He (or she) that spends the gold makes the rules in a consumer culture.

I think she will see more games and developers that are taking women's interests to heart, and hence there will be more women players, rinse and repeat. Gotta remember that 15-20 yrs ago there were almost no women game players (compared to today.) It is a new phenomenon, gotta give the game producers time to catch up with modern culture.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Similarly, keeping "how does this play to girls?" in mind when making a game generally won't turn anybody off, but could give you a larger audience

While this is a good idea, I'm not sure changing games to appeal to everyone would really expand the audience that much. Most girls don't play games anyway, regardless of whether the games are aimed at them or not. And even so, I know girls who like games like Time Crisis, Resident Evil, Eternal Darkness, Tomb Raider, and many other violent/action/typical male games.

 

[Steve Bjorg]

I think it is clear that 'The Sims' is the perfect example of a game that appeals to women. Personally, I don't know any guy who has played for any longer than a few days (for novelty's sake). However, I do know from first hand that female gamers seem to love it. Similarly for other management games like 'Zoo Tycoon'. For the gaming women I know, these kinds of games seem to appeal to them and so there is obviously a market.
The only part that shocks me personally is that so many seem to be OK with how women are objectified in games (or movies, etc.). Lara Croft is a great example. The game really wouldn't need her gravity-defying chest to be a good action game. I know it's targetted at the 12-99 male market, but that's simply no excuse for reinforcing a bad stereotype. Would anyone claim that DOA is a better game because of it's sexist nature?

 

[BrianB]

Not that many games, out of all the ones that are made, objectify women more than men. What do you want them to do to counter this, make videogames focused around male characters who are sensitive to a woman's needs? It wouldn't sell, and thus, is not worth making.

Have you actually read or learned anything from this thread? It's exactly that sort of characterisation of "women's games" that makes them so lame. Go do some research, you'll find that women are not gagging for a new Barbie goes to the mall game featuring a sensitive Ken companion - which is what you're suggesting.

 

[BertFalasco]

Jack, I am responding to the whole "get therapy" thing and just clarifying myself more.

To tell you the truth, I never read the article.

Calm down.

-Bert

 

[JayV]

Just because female gamers fall into the minority, that doesn't mean we should cater specifically to their tastes.

Morgan, to reiterate what I said (and to help steer this thread back to apolitical waters), the most interesting point of her article (and I believe main point) is an argument for more intelligent writing.

She believes that more intelligent writing will attract more female gamers, and as an aside, adds that this would be welcomed by adult gamers in general. She calls into question the conventional wisdom about "catering specifically to [their] tastes."

Further, her writing is hardly indicative of someone "mad" and she does offer a plausible alternative -- more intelligent writing.

As for the "majority rules" argument, I have to wonder about a majority that excludes roughly half the population. Seems to me that Brian's point is well-taken -- targeting games to only half the population can cut your potential market in half.

And, Brian, I was waiting for someone to say "Um, I don't think it's a voice mask, I think he's from Scotland or something." But no one bit.

I don't know how a potentially intelligent discussion about how games are written got turned into an ugly thread verging on a political flamewar. Well, I do know, and it's a shame.

-j

 

[Joel Mack]

To tell you the truth, I never read the article.

Brilliant.

I thought Bairdy was using the "Groundskeeper Willy" voicemask, not "Shrek"...

 

[GlenHaag]

This thread probably should be locked from where I fear it will go.

Bert, you jumped into this thread to lash out at activists, homosexuals and quite a few other groups for what appears to be no good reason. Then you come out and say that you didn't even read the article. Please tell me what your opinion can offer here?

Mine was just a suggestion that you seem to have a good deal of rage towards people who don't share your opinion. If you don't think it's valid.. fair enough.

Glen

 

[DaveGTP]

a quote from PC world:

Though males continue to play video games in the largest numbers, females account for most of the newcomers to digital entertainment, according to the study. Males make up 62 percent of computer game players, but more than 62 percent of the people who have been playing computer and video games for less than a year are women. Also, more than 46 percent of console buyers and 55 percent of computer game buyers are women.

The women are more and more becoming less of a minority. This was a fairly balanced, well-thought out article about needless sexuality. Was the giant-boobed helpless tavern-keeper with THOs needed, or even realistic? She sure doesn't look like a real tavern keeper to me. The point seemed to be a plea to chop out the needless stuff so that they could enjoy the game too. The story did not take issue with aiming a game at the guy demographic. It took issue with just assuming all game demographics are mostly men.

How much would you like a dude in speedo-tight breeches with a big fat one sticking out (if you know what I mean) jiggling his butt to be the tavern keeper? I know I wouldn't.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Gotta remember that 15-20 yrs ago there were almost no women game players (compared to today.) It is a new phenomenon, gotta give the game producers time to catch up with modern culture.

Well, it's a sliding scale. There weren't women's professional sports leagues, either; considering the strides toward equality in other areas, gaming could seem to be lagging behind just by not advancing as fast.

Still, as I mentioned above, women have always been an important force in the video game marketplace. Brian mentions Tetris, which is absolutely the best example of a game which appeals to everyone, but even back in The Atari Age, it was noticed that a lot of girls were dropping quarters into Q*Bert and Centipede.

Of course, it might have been easier in the early eighties, since the games were of necessity more abstract. I tend to think that games cease being games when plot and characterization get much more complicated than "frog crosses street" and "I like dots!"; they become more interactive storytelling and simulation. And once you get into that, you've got the potential to divide people more sharply.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Bert, you have a private message waiting for you. Thank you.