GIGI - 1997 DVD vs 2008 DVD (1 Viewer)

[BillyFeldman]

I don't really see an "outcry." And people are talking about the color, not edge enhancement, sharpness or anything else. The blue sky shot is certainly not "boosted" on the old DVD - it's the color of the sky as reflected in every print of Gigi I've ever seen. I certainly have never seen a print of Gigi with a brown sky. There isn't a fire burning in that scene, you know. It's daytime - it's blue, you can't really argue that, I'm afraid. And the whites look a lot whiter in the original DVD than the yellow/whites of the new DVD. I think people are just used to the way films today look - they all have a yellow brown bias. Not the way it used to be, though.

 

[Mark B]

This is NOT a debate stating that the old is right and the new is wrong. NEITHER version seems correct. I don't know how anyone can dispute that.

 

[Robert Harris]

While I'm happy to look into the Gigi questions, I can go on record stating that this is a fullblown problem film. It quite naturally has a faded OCN. On top of this a set of protection masters which do not protect, and an old IP which is also faded. The old transfer, created from dupes had a decided blue push.

While I have no direct experience with the elements, I do know that everything in archival power was performed. The possibility exists that Gigi may be one of those films that may never be able to have the full quality that it once did.

Such is the wrath and fate of films shot on Eastman 5248.

 

[GlennH]

To each his own, but I can't agree with that assertion at all. I find it hard to believe the original film looked anywhere near that blue. Just look at how garishly blue Gigi's dress and some other blue items are. Way overdone. And Louis Jordan's gray suit becomes baby blue. I suspect the "correct" color is somewhere in the middle of these two, and I don't really think either one is "good," but the new one works better for me.

 

[BillyFeldman]

It's all subjective, of course. But garish is certainly a word that Minnelli knew well. I prefer a baby blue gray suit to a brown gray suit, but to each his own and I'm glad you're pleased with the new transfer, brown sky and all

I do suspect you're correct in that the answer lies somewhere a little south of the early transfer, but nowhere near as far as the new transfer. There are simply no whites in the new transfer.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

I'm probably going to get a LOT of heat for this, but oh well...

I took some frame grabs from the 2008 DVD and opened them up in Photoshop. Then I selected Auto Color, a feature that sometimes wrecks havoc on color and brightness. I didn't go into extensive color correction, level altering or any of that. I just wanted to see what the software would come up with as it is.

I am not a telecine colorist (boy, what a job that would be!) nor do I claim to be. I'm just a person with eyes, and I call things as I see them. The brightness runs a little too hot after Photoshop, but otherwise I think the color balance is somewhat improved. The technicians at Warner could do it right, I'm sure. These altered frames are not what I think the film should look like - merely an example of what additional color correction can provide with the same source.

With some additional color correction, the new GIGI would look terrific. PLEASE, WARNER, DO SOME ADDITIONAL COLOR CORRECTION BEFORE THE BLU RELEASE NEXT YEAR!!!

2008 DVD

2008 DVD (After Photoshop autocolor)

2008 DVD

2008 DVD (After Photoshop autocolor)

2008 DVD

2008 DVD (After Photoshop autocolor)

2008 DVD

2008 DVD (After Photoshop autocolor)

 

[Robin9]

Easy, wasn't it?

Now you know why some people are savagely critical of the quality of Warner's DVD releases.

 

[Ethan Riley]

If you say so--honestly, I can't tell what the big difference is after Photoshop.

But I think we all have tv's in which the color and/or tint can be manipulated. I do it all the time when viewing honery dvd's. The thing that kills it for me in the new release is the jewelry box, as seen in the screen caps. It's garish purple in the new release, while royal blue in the old. Don't tell me for a minute that that Aunt had a purple jewelry box sitting around. As for the sky above the woman in the surrey--is it possible that the sky was supposed to be overcast in that shot? After all, we all agree that the old dvd was too blue. Is it possible that the blue was saturated to the point where a white sky can turn blue?

 

[Chuck Pennington]

These captures were made using VLC with no alterations. There is only so much that can be done with your color settings on your TV, and it wouldn't be practical to change those settings shot-for-shot while viewing a film.

Look at the fleshtones, how they descent into dark maroon rather than a normal shade on the new transfer. Maybe the screen caps don't look that different to you, but they do to me, and on a large HDTV the horrible off-color timing truly distracts.

Warner, please do additional color correction.

 

[BillyFeldman]

No, it is not possible that the sky was white, yellow, or anything else. There are no clouds, and every print I've ever seen of Gigi, and I've seen a lot, has a blue skies. If Irving Berlin had seen this DVD he would have had to change his lyrics to Brown skies, smiling at me, nothin' but brown skies, do I see.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

Isn't it amazing how people try to argue that their $20 was well-spent? Even when faced with pictures...

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Brown skies? Hardly. Look at where the shadows fall. It's clear that this shot was made at the "magic hour", which quite frequently displays a pinkish tint in the sky. Y'know, "red skies at night, sailor's delight; red sky at morning, sailor's warning."

I think that RAH's comments with respect to the faded OCN need to be considered, because I think that's a lot of what we're seeing here. That, and a lack of colour grading of the shots to level out exposure inconsistencies. Is it the best we're going to see? I don't know.

 

[Ethan Riley]

I'd probably be happy with it as long as they removed some of the godawful grain from the old dvd, improved the sound and added some decent extras. But the purple lining in that jewelry box...yeesh!

 

[GlennH]

I agree that the purple lining looks a little odd on the 2008. But who knows? Some shade of purple may be more correct than royal blue -- in the same frame I think that grandma's dress, the chair cushions on the left, and the flowers in the vases in the background and on the left side are much more natural and appropriate looking in the 2008. The 1997 version has these items being various shades of bright fuschia. The dusty rose/red shades in the 2008 seem more correct to me. I don't think we can trust colors on either of these too much.

1997 DVD

2008 DVD

 

[Ruz-El]

i watched it last night for the first time, and thought the colours worked fine on the 2008 DVD. Looked great on my meager set up. I just didn't care much for the movie itself. :frowning:

 

[Wayne_j]

Looking at the screen caps I prefer the 2008 version, the 1997 caps all have much too much of a blue tinge too them. I really wish that technicolor made the prints for this film, that would at least give us a dye transfer reference as to which the colors are supposed to look like.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

MY biggest problem with the 1997 DVD is how dupey and smeary the movie looks overall. What a mess!

 

[BillyFeldman]

You must quote in context - I think it was very clear that I wasn't talking about the I Remember It Well shot - I'm talking about the shot of the women in the coach, shot in broad daylight and whose skies in this transfer are brown. Never. Not in any print ever. Blue skies, just like Irving Berlin said. I understand what the color of the sky looks like in I Remember It Well - it's sunset - that's a whole different ball of wax.

 

[GlennH]

That brilliant sky! (No, tone it down.)
It was so blue! (More yellow-brown.)
Ah yes! I remember it well...

 

[Stephen_J_H]

And that's the one I'm talking about. My monitor @ home is calibrated and shows a sky that is primarily white with just a hint of pink, as you would see just before sunset on a red sky night on the eastern horizon. If they wanted blue skies, they should've shot at the right time of day.

EDIT: if you're referring to the screencap of the two women in the carriage in front of the trees, there is barely any sky visible. What is visible is blue.