FUNNY FACE and SABRINA Eye Popping Blu-rays (1 Viewer)

[John Hermes]

I think we who have differing opinions on Zulu and Funny Face should just let it go and move on to other topics. No one is convincing the other side here.

 

[haineshisway]

Would you like me to hold your coat, Mr Bruce?

Someone's got to, it may as well be you
I don't think it's a "personality" clash - I think it's a difference of opinion between The Man from Scotland and The Man from California. I know exactly what DNR does and looks like and I know exactly what edge enhancement does to compensate. I've been in the room and watched both being applied. That is all. My point was that someone posted a cap and the point was that heavy DNR had been applied. There was NO talk of EE at that point. I pointed out that I saw plenty of detail. Since that ran counter to the argument, then naturally EE entered into it and changed the argument. I should think that's the deflecting that's going on, but what do I know? I'm just a Guy named Bruce, and I'll just be a spectator in this thread from now on

 

[RKR1970]

I'm just a Guy named Bruce, and I'll just be a spectator in this thread from now on

Why just this thread?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by haineshisway /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/90#post_3952525
Someone's got to, it may as well be you
I don't think it's a "personality" clash - I think it's a difference of opinion between The Man from Scotland and The Man from California. I know exactly what DNR does and looks like and I know exactly what edge enhancement does to compensate. I've been in the room and watched both being applied. That is all. My point was that someone posted a cap and the point was that heavy DNR had been applied. There was NO talk of EE at that point. I pointed out that I saw plenty of detail. Since that ran counter to the argument, then naturally EE entered into it and changed the argument. I should think that's the deflecting that's going on, but what do I know? I'm just a Guy named Bruce, and I'll just be a spectator in this thread from now on

I made my position clear about the screencap, i watched the film first, the film has had a DNR makeover with selected scenes having EE applied, i then posted one of those scenes to challenge you to spot it, i posted a screencap loaded with EE, you failed to spot it, this confirmed to me that you don't know what EE on Zulu looks like or that you are stubbornly refusing to change your view on this Blu ray, one of the two, i have VIEWED the film on my projection setup, my website had the review printed long before i posted here on this thread and it has always mentioned DNR and edge enhancement, that review is dated 17th April 2010.

Remember this whole debate came about AFTER you made the comment about people with projection setups pressing their noses to the screen, tell you what though, i'd love to hear Robert A Harris and his views on this film, it's cheap from Amazon.co.uk, maybe he could review it for his A Few Words page.

 

[Robin9]

I'm just a Guy named Bruce, and I'll just be a spectator in this thread from now on

You have something to say, something that adds to the debate. Don't be just a spectator.

 

[iDarren]

For those who are interested, Sabrina is available on BD in Australia.

 

[haineshisway]

I made my position clear about the screencap, i watched the film first, the film has had a DNR makeover with selected scenes having EE applied, i then posted one of those scenes to challenge you to spot it, i posted a screencap loaded with EE, you failed to spot it, this confirmed to me that you don't know what EE on Zulu looks like or that you are stubbornly refusing to change your view on this Blu ray, one of the two, i have VIEWED the film on my projection setup, my website had the review printed long before i posted here on this thread and it has always mentioned DNR and edge enhancement, that review is dated 17th April 2010.
Remember this whole debate came about AFTER you made the comment about people with projection setups pressing their noses to the screen, tell you what though, i'd love to hear Robert A Harris and his views on this film, it's cheap from Amazon.co.uk, maybe he could review it for his A Few Words page.

I tried to be a spectator, but...
How do you know what's been applied and not applied? You "think" you know, but you don't because you were not there when the transfer was made and you do not know what the large format negative looks like. A lot of people cry DNR and edge enhancement - it happened when Breakfast at Tiffany's came out - only there wasn't any. Oops. I see nothing that resembles larded on edge enhancement on your cap, although again, the cap is a cap and is one frame of a film with MANY frames. You keep trying to have it all ways but you can't - you have people here saying this film looks spectacular on their projection set-up. Is everyone crazy? And now you say that edge enhancement was only used on "selected scenes." No. If they'd DNR'd it to death, as you state, they would have had to use it on EVERY scene. All I can tell you is having sat in a telecine room at FotoKem being shown how DNR gets applied and then how sharpening with EE works and how FAR you have to go with it for it to actually become evident, I see none of that in your cap. But again, I REALLY see none of that when I watch the film in motion. We have now both stated our positions. You lambast me for being stubborn as if I'm the only one being stubborn here. Stubborn, in this case, seems to be a two-way street, and I haven't resorted to being sarcastic about your screen name or your real name, have I?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by haineshisway /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/90#post_3952793
I tried to be a spectator, but...
All I can tell you is having sat in a telecine room at FotoKem being shown how DNR gets applied and then how sharpening with EE works and how FAR you have to go with it for it to actually become evident, I see none of that in your cap. But again, I REALLY see none of that when I watch the film in motion. We have now both stated our positions. You lambast me for being stubborn as if I'm the only one being stubborn here. Stubborn, in this case, seems to be a two-way street, and I haven't resorted to being sarcastic about your screen name or your real name, have I?

I never cried DNR for Breakfast At Tiffany's, i have that film, it's fine, i will cry DNR and EE for Zulu though. You keep trying to force the argument, so let me say it again, there is DNR, it has removed detail, the transfer has a waxy quality about it, it's on everything and not just "faces" they have sharpened the entire transfer but some scenes suffer worse than others but it does nothing to cure the waxy quality to the image, that is what i meant with selected EE, EE can be manually applied to sharpen some scenes up more than others, i know this because i have discussed it with an encoding expert who actually works on Blu ray transfers for a small encoding house, as for one frame, yes one frame of many, guess what, the entire scene of that one frame i provided has the issue but then so do a number of other scenes in the film.

Nothing sarcastic about me asking about your screen name, note the question mark after i asked about it in the post, i noted your website after doing research on you, unfortunately the Live Help seems to contain a virus as my Avira was blocking it and telling me about it, i was wanting to discuss this with you through your Live Help and not annoy people here, it's likely you have failed to update Movable Type and the Live Help and it has security holes, that's how attentive to detail you are ( now that is me being sarcastic ) i would advise you to update the software of both, see i am thorough about these things, you state you are Guy Haines on one site but Bruce Kimmel here, it confuses me, after further research i see the Guy Haines name is connected with music as well as your website. Ok as Robin Points out below it's from Strangers On A Train, a Hitchcock film i have not watched in years, i guess it makes him feel clever that he knew this, those of us that don't are clearly inferior according to Robin, if i only wanted to watch a film and didn't concern myself with quality i'd stick to DVD or hey i might even go back to VHS, Blu ray can offer so much more and should give us more all of the time.

To Bruce i would just add you were yourself very sarcastic though about pressing one's nose to the screen to see faults, aimed at those of us with projection setups.

Yes we are both stubborn, i will stand by my position on this film and state that i think you are wrong, i did do a quick search to locate a Zulu thread to post this reply in, didn't find it.

 

[bigshot]

Its what is on the disc, it is exactly what you are seeing, it looks nothing like a large format image harvest, the detail is not there.

Look at the black native's arm on the left. I can see knuckle wrinkles, variation in skin tone and even a light coating of dust on his forearm. Wouldn't that be the sort of thing obliterated by excessive grain smoothing? I can see sharp details like the straw wouldn't show that sort of thing up, but subtle variations like that all around the same value would be the first thing loss with grain smoothing. No?
Are we talking about edge enhancement or grain smoothing? Edge enhancement can create artifacts, but it doesn't generally reduce detail. It's designed to enhance detail. If I'm supposed to be looking at the dividing line between red coat and blue sky, that is flat out the most difficult thing for video to reproduce. Reds bleed very easily if they are highly saturated like that. There's a little edge sharpening there, but it isn't anywhere near bad. The dividing line there looks remarkably contained considering the extreme contrast of those brightly saturated hues. On the screen in motion, it looks sharp and clear.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by bigshot /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/90#post_3952834
Look at the black native's arm on the left. I can see knuckle wrinkles, variation in skin tone and even a light coating of dust on his forearm. Wouldn't that be the sort of thing obliterated by excessive grain smoothing? I can see sharp details like the straw wouldn't show that sort of thing up, but subtle variations like that all around the same value would be the first thing loss with grain smoothing. No?
Are we talking about edge enhancement or grain smoothing? Edge enhancement can create artifacts, but it doesn't generally reduce detail. It's designed to enhance detail. If I'm supposed to be looking at the dividing line between red coat and blue sky, that is flat out the most difficult thing for video to reproduce. Reds bleed very easily if they are highly saturated like that. There's a little edge sharpening there, but it isn't anywhere near bad. The dividing line there looks remarkably contained considering the extreme contrast of those brightly saturated hues. On the screen in motion, it looks sharp and clear.

All i see is a poor transfer, i don't see sharp, i see a smooth, filtered and undetailed encode with some edge enhancement, the EE obviously hasn't helped with the illusion of detail but it is there, it doesn't look film like to me and incidently i have seen enough poor transfers, also seen enough good transfers, we can't all be right on this.

Unlike Bruce i am now going to resign from this thread, give it back to Sabrina and Funny Face, anyone wants my opinion on Zulu they can look back at the posts i have already written or read my views on my own website. We will just have to disagree about Zulu.

 

[Robin9]

. . . you state you are Guy Haines on one site but Bruce Kimmel here, it confuses me, after further research i see the Guy Haines name is connected with music as well as your website. 

Guy Haines is quite obviously a pseudonym. I suggest you take another look at Strangers On A Train. Some of us who pay attention to movies instead of grain, DNR and edge enhancement spot these things without difficulty.

 

[OliverK]

Nice to see the argument about Zulu carried on, why not go over here to continue with it:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/275095/zulu-on-bluray-uk/30

 

[hguerth]

Nice to see the argument about Zulu carried on, why not go over here to continue with it:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/275095/zulu-on-bluray-uk/30

That is exactly what I was trying to recommend. The thread of Funny Face in this thread got lost in some way. Something I forgot to mention: The French Blu-ray is absolutely bare-bones, so keep your 2-DVD-edition in a safe place.

 

[Mark Oates]

Some of us who pay attention to movies instead of grain, DNR and edge enhancement spot these things without difficulty.

Why did I hear that in my head as Sean Connery?

 

[bigshot]

All i see is a poor transfer, i don't see sharp, i see a smooth, filtered and undetailed encode with some edge enhancement, the EE obviously hasn't helped with the illusion of detail but it is there, it doesn't look film like to me and incidently i have seen enough poor transfers, also seen enough good transfers, we can't all be right on this.

That's a nice conclusion, but it doesn't address any of my points.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by bigshot /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/90#post_3953743
That's a nice conclusion, but it doesn't address any of my points.

I continued the discussion within the link provided above.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/275095/zulu-on-bluray-uk/30

 

[bigshot]

It doesn't look like my points were addressed there either.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by bigshot /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/90#post_3954722
It doesn't look like my points were addressed there either.

Go there and post and i'm likely to respond and also i hope you address the fact its most certainly a 35mm film scan that was used, ( not a large format image harvest ) i shouldn't even be posting in this thread again and i feel we should be discussing this in the Zulu thread, i have it subscribed to so i will see if you post a reply to this there, and i do hope you post it there. I will be happy to continue the discussion on the film over there and leave this thread for Sabrina's Funny Face.

 

[Robin9]

Why did I hear that in my head as Sean Connery?

Possibly you are psychic or perhaps because Sean Connery played Mark Rutland in Marnie, and I believe - he can correct me if I'm wrong - Mr. Kimmel has in the past used Mark Rutland as a pseudonym.

 

[haineshisway]

Possibly you are psychic or perhaps because Sean Connery played Mark Rutland in Marnie, and I believe - he can correct me if I'm wrong - Mr. Kimmel has in the past used Mark Rutland as a pseudonym.

You are quite correct Just once, though.