First impressions of SVS (1 Viewer)

[MikeyWeitz]

You could possibly have HUGE peak somehwere in the FR and that is what you are calibrated to. This would make the other freq's lower.

You probably need to run soke test tones to plot the FR, then get a BFD to smooth them out.

 

[KenWA]

I think Mr. Weitz has a good idea.

If your PC is nearby, you can hook up a tone generator to your system to get the system response at specific frequencies. You can also use other software, like the free demo of ETF for example, to do quick plots of your overall response.

You can also, if able, burn tones onto a CD and use that. The BFD setup guide site has the following page with tones:

http://www.snapbug.ws/sinewaves/

You could burn the tones on to a CD, using the frequency value as the track number (e.g. 20 Hz as track 20) and you could then easily check the response at various frequencies. Of course, you should be careful doing this so as not to burn out the speaker.

It does sound more like a configuration problem than an equipment problem. The tone test should be revealing.

If you're really ambitious, take your sub outside and run the test sweeps out there and plot the response... that will entirely remove room related anomalies! (You would then also garner the praise of all those who look for this data to try to objectively compare sub, and start to have people compare you to the Ed Mullens and Keith Yates of this world! A nice perk. )

 

[TimJC]

There's your problem. The DVD player audio out needs to be set to "Bitstream/Dolby Digital" instead of PCM.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.


Tim

 

[Tom_T]

That is one of the things that I changed the first night. That and turning off the DRC.

I played with the sub some more last night and I've definitely come to realize that it's the source material I was using to test that was causing me some disappointment in the sub performance. I watched some test clips of Monsters Inc and U571 (those depth charges are pretty cool) and was much more impressed by what this sub does. I still think it needs more tweaking and hopefully I'll find some time over the weekend to plot out the FR and tweak it with the PEQ. If I can't get it smoothed out enough then I may spring for a BFD.

Where can I find more info on this free demo of ETF and how exactly can it help me? I do have a laptop so setting up camp in the theater room to test is not a problem.

 

[Edward J M]

1) bitstream all the way
2) definitely kill that peak
3) recalibrate (see #4)

4) Try all three front speaker channels with Avia and throw out the high and the low and use the average for subwoofer calibration.

Provided it's in phase with the subwoofer, using the speaker channel nearest to the sub will likely generate the highest SPL level on the subwoofer tone due to acoustic coupling. This will result in undercalibration of the subwoofer level, probably by a few dB.

5) After you kill the peak and select the most representative speaker channel for sub calibration, see how you like the new sub level. If it still seems a bit underwhelming, don't be afraid to run the sub a little hotter - maybe 85-86 dB, which would be about 2-3 dB hot.

 

[Ralph B]

I need a BFD being in the cellar. I miss some bass here and there especially now that the walls are torn down.....lol


been meaning to buy one but need to finish my cellar first.

 

[Sami Kallio]

Maybe it's your listening level? -10dB isn't teeth rattling bass IMO. Try reference and if it is too loud for your ears, calibrate the sub hot by 10dB and run the movie at -10dB (just for the sake of experimenting, not permanent setup). Actually might be better to do it by 3dB increments, you don't want to damage the sub in case it bottoms out bad at reference.

 

[Vaughan Odendaal]

Well, I have an SVS PB-10 ISD in a 3600 cubic foot room, and I am still amazed with it.

For music the bass sounds a little thick, but that's because of placement and also because I have no room treatment to speak of at the moment.

In terms of output, I'm impressed by this thing. I have played the AOTC THX ball explosion scene, and it remains compression free at around -14 from reference (calibrated accurately).

To many here, it doesn't sound like much, but the distortion levels are so low at this volume that it's great. That's the beauty of the PB-10. It has incredibly low distortion at maximum output.

You can't bottom it out. But what you will get is compression when driven too hard. That is the only real negative. Your PB12-Ultra subwoofer should be twice as loud as mine.

I still wonder how loud the PB-10 could go if it's THD limits weren't restricted to 10%.

Tom, I think your subwoofer is to blame, IMHO. If your subwoofer is bottoming out at -10 from reference and calibrated accurately, increasing the volume to reference (or increasing the sub level 10 dB's hot) will most likely blow the thing apart.

The PB12-Ultra is an amazing subwoofer but there is no way (IMO) that it can handle full reference levels on the exploding ball scene in a 3000 cubic foot room without excessive levels of distortion and/or bottoming out.

Good luck with your subwoofer, though. I hope they Tom/Ron sort the problem out for you. In the meantime, I'm going to order myself another PB-10.

Heh.

--Sincerely,

 

[steve nn]

In SVS's defence, did you suggest that -20 was your reg listening level? The exploding ball at -10 and being 5 dB hot or more at that??... is a far cry from -20. My room is 12 X 24 X 10' with openings and dual PB12-Ultra's cant handle the exploding ball at -0 with out compression. Pardon the pic, but it will show what I'm up against to a certain degree. Anyway your sub doesn't know that your kitchen isn't part of your reg listening area and that space needs to be factored in. It's imo that SVS did so, but they were possibly under the impression your reg listening level was -20 and they were doing their best to be minimal in your $favor?

 

[Tom_T]

I spent some more time over the weekend tweaking the sub, checking levels, watching movies, etc. I've found that since I listen at about 10-15db less then reference level I need to run the sub hot to get the bass output that I'm looking for and it's pushing the sub to the edge of bottoming. I'm really torn as to what to do at this point. I can either keep the single PB12/Ultra and keep running it at it's limit or I can upgrade to a PB12 Plus/2. I'm going to send an e-mail off to SVS Tom and see what he thinks as well. Decisions, decisions decisions....

 

[steve nn]

I understand your frustration Tom. If you plan on running the PB12-Plus/2 in it's stock 25 Hz tune and thats agreeable with you?? then the Plus/2 will afford you the headroom your looking for. If you have the space??.. dual collocated PB12-Ultra's, PC-Ultra's, 20-39PC+'s or PB12-Pluses will trounce the Plus/2 or Ultra/2.

Anyway good luck and I'm sure you'll get this squared away with Tom or Ron's help.

 

[Ilkka R]

Don't sell the Ultra. It's all about the settings.

First I would drop the X-over down to 80 Hz. Then put some music with a nice bass in it (a normal kick bass will do just fine) and listen if the phase setting has any effect at all. Try 0, 90 and 180. Use the setting where the bass seems the fullest and tightest.

Then set your PEQ like this:

Q at around 3:30 (the second least notch)
Level at around 3:30 (the second least notch)
Frequency at 20 Hz (fully left)

Also make sure that the SS-filter is set to 20 Hz (check the clicks).

Then calibrate again. If you are using AVIA, 85 dB for the mains and 83-85 dB for the sub is just fine.

Also if you could plot your FR, it would help a lot. If you can't use the TrueRTA or similar, use the Excel sheet and sine waves.

Where does this all comes from then? I received my first Ultra around 5 weeks ago, and at first I was also kinda dissappointed. But with these settings and after a little bit of running in, it really has no limits. Just a few nights away I tried the last storm/wind on FOTP at -5RL and they hit (yes I have two now, but not because one wouldn't be enough, the other one was ordered before the first one arrived) 117.7 dB (C/fast). I also tried the first battle on M&C at -5RL and they hit 115.3 dB, and they were only laughing. That was a fun experiment.

Also one thing that most people don't realize, that your main speakers have a huge effect on bass. Try to play only your subs on, if they are "tight", then your X-over is way too high. The tight bass is located above 100 Hz and is handled only by your mains. So if some of you aren't getting enough "kick", it may be your mains, not the sub. A single 6.5" woofer per speaker will not keep up with the TV-12 woofer at high levels, when using regular x-over frequencies around 80 Hz or below. The midbass is as important (maybe even more) as the sub-bass.

 

[TimJC]

Ilkka,

To clarify, for the Q and Level settings you mentioned, with both at 3:30 on the dial:

Q will be 2 notches from LO
Level will be 2 notches from MAX.

Is that correct? Seems at first blush that the Level is very high.

I understand the Freq setting of 20 as I know I have a pretty significant low end room gain when in 20hz tune on my PC Ultra. FYI, my mains are 5.25", rated down to 60hz +/-3.

Also, can you expound some on how/why you arrived at these fairly generalized settings?

Much thanks in advance.


Tim

 

[rob-h]

Ilkka R, you should not have to run it with the gain jacked up that high. I cant say that I agree with a lot of your other comments either. But hey, to each his own.

 

[Ilkka R]

That is correct. Actually the level knob works like this. The first 3/4 has almost no affect at all, the last 1/4 has a huge effect. So 3:30 isn't actually very much. I can post some measurements later tonight.

And yes, these are just general settings, but if you can't do your own measurements, they are better than nothing. The fact that all TV-12 based units have around 7-8 dB rise from 100 Hz to 20 Hz, combined with a 10-20 dB room gain at 20 Hz will lead you into a bad situation if you don't use any PEQ at all.

 

[Ralph B]

that level is way way to high. im in a room thats 16x12 with openings to 2 different very large rooms and I only have mine set to the 2nd notch on the gain. my SPL meter says this is correct and it rattles the hell out of my teeth and brings the house down. this is even missing some frequenceys and my wife gets mad when things fall off shelves upstairs.

all this and I still need a BFD.


sounds like a calibration issue to me.

 

[Ilkka R]

Gain? I didn't say anything about the gain. I was talking about the PEQ all the time.

Can't say anything general about the gain, you should calibrate your system for example using AVIA, to find out the correct level for your subwoofer. Propably the gain will be around 9:00-10:00.

 

[Ilkka R]

Guys, guys!!

Not the gain. I was talking about the PEQ all the time.

Ralph, your subwoofer rattles things so much, because the low end is so much higher than the midbass. That's exactly the reason why you should use the PEQ to tame that 20 Hz area down.

 

[Sami Kallio]

Well the signal going to your sub and his could be very different, couldn't they?

 

[TimJC]

Ilkka,

OK, I follow you now, and after some testing last night in 20hz tune I do generally see (hear) some benefit of those settings, or slight variations of them.

What general PEQ settings might you recommend if setting the PC Ultra to 16hz tune? It seems that there is already a slight amount of EQ built into the 16hz tune once that is selected?

Thanks,

Tim