FINALLY! TrueHD, DTS-HD Master AVR Receivers! (1 Viewer)

[Jack Gilvey]

...and send it over any version of HDMI, rendering bitstream transmission superfluous.

 

[JediFonger]

so this means that if you owned hdmi 1.1 HD player that PASSED LPCM AND an AVR that receives hdmi 1.1 LPCM, then that's it, yes? very interesting. but from what i hear, there aren't many (are there ANY) HD players AND AVR's that implemented this LPCM passthrough correct? so, 1.3 is STILL the spex to own for true LPCM implementations, no?

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I'm not sure what that means. As I noted, if you don't already have an HDMI receiver, there's no reason not to go 1.3 given the price of something like the Onkyo 605. If I already have a 604 or equivalent, the 605 isn't really going to do anything for me (although it apparently accepts 7.1 HDMI vs. 5.1...in case you're waiting for something to get released with such).
The reason I find "Eureka!" threads like this interesting is people seem think that TrueHD has been unattainable before these receivers, yet folks have been enjoying it for quite a while...what I've endeavored to explain in this thread is surprising to many.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

For us in the Blu-ray camp (and HD-DVD, but those guys hardly get lossless of either flavor and no PCM) there are NO players with internal DTS MA decoding.

Also, it has been stated by DTS and Dolby that even if a disc is authored in "advanced mode" they will still allow the film soundtrack to be sent raw. You will lose "clicks," "pops," and "beeps," and other sounds from the "advanced" menus as they won't be mixed together, but the main feature's audio will be sent via HDMI 1.3. It would be suicide for them to not have this option available.

To me, these flashy extras are pure fluff, and I WANT to hear my DTS MA audio!. Hell, all the Fox titles have it, and Lionsgate has at least DTS-HD audio too!

And, it sounds as if you can up the MSRP's on that Onkyo list by $100 each according to the press releases. That's not to say you won't find them for less.

 

[JediFonger]

dan, in another words, there are currently *no* DTS-HD Master->LPCM conversions via hdmi?

 

[Dan Hitchman]

That is correct. The decoded (unzipped) form of TrueHD and DTS Master Audio is PCM anyway, and if they do work as advertised it's the exact copy of the PCM master that was fed into the encoder. Well, not quite as TrueHD with Dial. Norm. engaged messes with the output levels. Sony has pledged to turn Dial. Norm. off of their upcoming TrueHD Blu-ray discs (I guess most of them from now on)... we need to pressure the others to do the same.

For the time being, we need HDMI 1.3 players and decoders to get DTS MA audio.

Dan

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Yeah, haven't followed BD closely (although I find the idea of "camps" ludicrous), but current firmware doesn't support it.

Same idea as explained above, though, as illustrated nicely by DTS:

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-mast...g-receiver.php

I don't care about extras myself, the question concerns even having the option provided by the content-maker.

 

[J Tran]

Where are you finding it for $399.99??? The best price I can find so far is $499.99 at B&H.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

According to the guys at AVS, you've got to call JandR and ask. Even then, I'm not sure if that's still valid.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

As a follow-up, I'm not aware of any players even capable of sending the bitstream currently, so the receiver can't get anything to decode.. Should be a firmware issue, but by then the player's decoding might be enabled also.

 

[BrentSP]

Man I am lost......

I thought this HDMI stuff was mainly for video 1080p. Also I found this on the DTS site. If I'm understanding correctly our current technology can decode the DTS-HD at the full bit as long as you have a a Blue Ray player or HD DVD player. So if thats the case why are there Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoders if the current ones will decode it at the full 1.5 mbps?

High Definition Player to Current AV Receiver

You can enjoy DTS Digital Surround at the full 1.5 Mbps data rate by hooking up any Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD player with DTS-HD Digital Out to your existing AV Receiver with DTS. Simply connect a basic digital audio cable to the S/PDIF outputs and inputs of your player and receiver. S/PDIF is a universal digital audio connection found on nearly all home entertainment products. It has both optical and coax type connectors. This connection will allow DTS Digital Surround (at the full 1.5 Mbps data rate) to be transferred and decoded, delivering improved surround audio.

 

[Rob Young]

So what's the story here...is this worth getting if one has a PS3/blu ray player and wants to hear the DTS MA tracks already on many discs? I have both a Tosh A1 and PS3 and I'd like to use dts MA on the bluray side. Also, if someone has one of the newer HDMI 1.3 hd dvd players would the Onkyo decode these tracks from those players? It seems that if what Dan said is true then they would and one could bypass the player's BM which seems to have issues on the XA2.

I already have a HDMI reciever but shelling out 1.1k for the 805 won't set me back especially since it has 1 more HDMI input than what I currently have and it has more power which is nice as my speakers aren't the most efficient out there.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Your quote from the DTS site refers to "regular" 1.5 Mbps DTS hooked up via optical or coax to a receiver.
The advanced "lossless" formats, DTS HD Master and TrueHD, require decoders either in the player or in the receiver. They cannot be passed via S/PDIF. The other links on the DTS site explain.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Depending on how good your current receiver is at handling LPCM via HDMI, it may be adequate with players that have the decoders built right in (and if firmware enables it). See here:

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-mast...g-receiver.php

 

[Rob Young]

Thanks Jack.

 

[LanceJ]

Hope y'all dont mind an off-topic question: why did the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray people approve of TWO lossless audio formats (i.e. TrueHD and DTS Master Audio)? The end result of both is the same thing!

 

[Phil A]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but Pioneer just issued a press release:

"May. 9, 2007 Fulfilling the complete high resolution home entertainment experience, Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. today introduces four new A/V receivers that deliver high definition audio and video like never before. The Pioneer(R) Elite(R) VSX-90TXV, VSX-91TXH, VSX-92TXH and VSX-94TXH A/V receivers are essential hubs of home theater with superior HDMI connectivity for a host of digital devices. The top three models offer HDMI 1.3a support to handle increased picture and sound demands of new high definition televisions and optical disc players. High resolution powerhouses, the top three models seamlessly pass 1080p 24Hz picture with sophisticated decoding of advanced audio formats Dolby(R) TrueHD, Dolby(R) Digital Plus and DTS-HD(TM) Master Audio. The VSX-92TXH and VSX-94TXH are two of the industry's first receivers to feature Neural-THX(R) Surround(TM) decoding for faithful reproduction of multi-channel surround sound for movies, music and gaming in the home theater environment.
"Pioneer continually answers the call from audio video enthusiasts seeking the ultimate in rich home theater design. Our new line of Elite A/V receivers with HDMI 1.3a connectivity allows consumers to enjoy the benefits of the new technologies being used on music and movie discs," said Dave Bales, marketing manager of audio products for the home entertainment division of Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. "We're bringing the true essence of high definition emotion to the audience."

To ensure dynamic sound of all connected devices, Pioneer employs industry-leading digital sound processing capabilities including its Advanced MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System) room tuning technology. All four receivers provide personalized music entertainment options via new compatibility with Sirius(R) Satellite Radio as well as direct inputs to an iPod(R) and XM Connect & Play(TM) antenna.

High Definition Like Never Before

Setting the benchmark for high definition connectivity, the new Pioneer Elite A/V receivers unify current and future home theater components with enhanced audio video scaling and processing to ensure optimum performance. The VSX-92TXH and VSX-94TXH provide definitive home theater functionality with HDMI Consumer Electronics Control (CEC) technology for complete management of multiple CEC-enabled components with the Pioneer PDP's remote control.

Video Processing

The new generation of HDMI, version 1.3a, has more than double the bandwidth capacity of its predecessors for extremely high speed transfer of uncompressed high definition video and audio resolutions. Designed for emerging 1080p flat panel television and the Blu-ray(R) Disc optical format, Pioneer Elite A/V receivers with HDMI 1.3a deliver the true excitement of high definition entertainment.

The Elite VSX-92TXH and VSX-94TXH A/V receivers are specifically engineered for the 1080p world with a Faroudja(R) video scaler chip that ensures full 1080p 24Hz performance among high resolution products. The VSX-91TXH features an interlace-to-progressive (I/P) signal converter up to 480p.

Audio Processing

Leveraging its audio expertise, Pioneer incorporates superb internal decoding of advanced audio codecs that bring high definition full circle. The top three receiver models deliver lossless DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus multi-channel audio. The new formats deliver stellar sound quality using premium Dolby TrueHD lossless audio and DTS-HD Master Audio. These receiver models also include Dolby Digital Plus, a highly flexible audio technology that delivers outstanding high-definition sound and up to 7.1 channels of surround sound for a richer, more involving entertainment experience.

The VSX-92 and VSX-94 offer the newest generation of THX technology, Neural-THX Surround, allows home audiences to experience rich surround sound the way an audio engineer envisioned an original cinematic, music or gaming soundtrack would perform. The technology allows for broadcast content to be transmitted in 2-channel stereo format, and when played back through a connected device the new receivers are capable of decoding that content back in to 7.1 multi-channel audio, immersing listeners in brilliant high resolution sound in their living room. All four receivers are THX Select2 Certified, incorporating THX product design and performance specifications that ensure a superior level of audio quality and product usability.

Superb Audio Delivery

All four receivers utilize Pioneer Advanced MCACC room-tuning feature to upgrade sound quality in any room configuration. The MCACC microphone requires quick one-touch activation to optimize the acoustics in a room by making subtle adjustments to a room's speakers, neutralizing the sound field of the listening area and meticulous fine-tuning for exceptional sonic performance. Utilizing Phase Control technology, the new receivers can eliminate signal distortion sometimes caused by low frequency sound sources audio arrives at the listening position in sync ensuring accurate audio reproduction.

A Variety in Entertainment

Pioneer continues to provide the most robust entertainment connectivity.

-- Satellite Radio: All four A/V receivers deliver both SIRIUS and XM Satellite Radio crystal clear, digital programming with dual connectivity to both a SiriusConnect(TM) SC-H1 tune and XM Connect & Play(TM) antenna (both sold separately; monthly subscription needed). Simple control and management of both satellite radio devices is done with the receivers' remote control and full on-screen display capability. HD fans can enjoy select XM music channels in 5.1 surround sound via XM HD Surround broadcasts powered by Neural Audio(R).

-- iPod Audio & Photo: For a truly personal experience, the receivers allow direct access and control to personalized music and video files from an iPod(R) via the optional Pioneer IDK-80 universal iPod docking station. Owners can navigate playlists with the remote control and on-screen display.

-- Home Media Gallery Audio: The Elite VSX-94TXH provides audio streaming capability of downloaded music from a computer hard drive or Internet radio as well as portable USB devices for Home Networking. Artist and song information can be viewed with on-screen display capability and controlled with the system's remote.

Full Custom Installation Ready

All four of the Pioneer Elite A/V receivers are custom-installation as a result of the following features:

-- Multi-room, multi-source capabilities allowing a single receiver to serve as the entertainment centerpiece of multiple rooms

-- XM and Sirius Satellite Radio programming for secondary zone

-- RS232 port for PC and control connectivity (VSX-91TXH, VSX-92TXH, VSX-94TXH)

-- LCD preset/learning remote with preset multi-operation control

-- Synchronized high end home theater design with glossy black cosmetics

The VSX-90TXV and VSX-91TXH will be available June 2007 for the suggested prices of $650 and $1000, respectively. The VSX-92TXH and VSX-94TXH will begin shipping August 2007 for the suggested prices of $1300 and $1600, respectively.

Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. is headquartered in Long Beach, Calif., and its U.S. Web address is http://www.pioneerelectronics.com. Its parent company, Pioneer Corporation, is a leader in optical disc technology and a preeminent manufacturer of high-performance audio, video and computer equipment for the home, car and business markets.

PIONEER and ELITE are registered trademarks of Pioneer Corporation."

 

[JediFonger]

thx. this is awesome either way, more AVR's decoding stuff natively.

 

[MarekM]

DTS-MA Floodgates Open with New Pioneer Elite A/V Receivers

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Receivers/620



Marek

 

[JediFonger]

moar!