Interview Exclusive HTF Interview: Gretchen Wayne on the Blu-ray release of Hondo (1 Viewer)

[Bob Furmanek]

To be honest, at this point, that's water under the bridge. It's best to move forward, forget (and learn from) the mistakes of the past and look ahead.
If I were doing the interview, I would not have brought up what happened five years ago. The important thing is to encourage and show support for a 3-D release. Now that we know it's Paramount that nixed the idea, let's work to improve that situation.
I'm doing all that I can not only to alert Paramount to their superb 3-D holdings - which include essential titles like THE MAZE and MONEY FROM HOME - but to provide the best 3-D restoration work at a very reasonable cost.
Of course, when you have people saying they're going to buy HONDO whether 3-D or not and that the lack of 3-D is not a deal-breaker, we have an uphill battle.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Bob Furmanek /t/321298/exclusive-htf-interview-gretchen-wayne-on-the-blu-ray-release-of-hondo#post_3935443
To be honest, at this point, that's water under the bridge. It's best to move forward, forget (and learn from) the mistakes of the past and look ahead.
If I were doing the interview, I would not have brought up what happened five years ago. The important thing is to encourage and show support for a 3-D release. Now that we know it's Paramount that nixed the idea, let's work to improve that situation.
I'm doing all that I can not only to alert Paramount to their superb 3-D holdings - which include essential titles like THE MAZE and MONEY FROM HOME - but to provide the best 3-D restoration work at a very reasonable cost.
Of course, when you have people saying they're going to buy HONDO whether 3-D or not and that the lack of 3-D is not a deal-breaker, we have an uphill battle.

You have an uphill battle anyway because if nobody bought this release from this forum then chances of them thinking it's because of 3-D won't go very far because our numbers here are minimal compared to those that are buying this release happily at Walmart or similar retailers.

 

[GregK]

You have an uphill battle anyway because if nobody bought this release from this forum then chances of them thinking it's because of 3-D won't go very far because our numbers here are minimal compared to those that are buying this release happily at Walmart or similar retailers.

The HTF is a common place where people expect the best viewing experience possible of their treasured features. Part of that "best viewing experience possible" would of course include things like the original aspect ratio, audio mix and 3-D. Because the HTF *is* widely known for caring about these staplemarks, it is not unheard of for studios to monitor sites like this one to judge the response of it's members. So I see Bob's point, especially when Gretchen Wayne would have preferred to have seen a 3-D Bluray release instead. HONDO could have been the first major 3-D Bluray release from the Golden Age of 3-D.
3-D is typically what the bean counters call "value added content" .. and easily could have increased awareness, interest and sales of this given release. Value added content is why the studios can easily charge $10 or often more for the 3-D version from the start of the 3-D Blu format and still continue to do so. It's why smaller companies like Shout! are importing overseas lower budget titles release for 3-D Bluray. It sells. So for *any* given feature that is almost sixty years old, value added content like 3-D would seem to be a natural, especially with today's consumer 3-D technology. ..Best of all: No expensive and shoddy 2D to 3D conversion was needed. ;-)

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by GregK /t/321298/exclusive-htf-interview-gretchen-wayne-on-the-blu-ray-release-of-hondo#post_3935493
The HTF is a common place where people expect the best viewing experience possible of their treasured features. Part of that "best viewing experience possible" would of course include things like the original aspect ratio, audio mix and 3-D. Because the HTF *is* widely known for caring about these staplemarks, it is not unheard of for studios to monitor sites like this one to judge the response of it's members. So I see Bob's point, especially when Gretchen Wayne would have preferred to have seen a 3-D Bluray release instead. HONDO could have been the first major 3-D Bluray release from the Golden Age of 3-D.
3-D is typically what the bean counters call "value added content" .. and easily could have increased awareness, interest and sales of this given release. Value added content is why the studios can easily charge $10 or often more for the 3-D version from the start of the 3-D Blu format and still continue to do so. It's why smaller companies like Shout! are importing overseas lower budget titles release for 3-D Bluray. It sells. So for *any* given feature that is almost sixty years old, value added content like 3-D would seem to be a natural, especially with today's consumer 3-D technology. ..Best of all: No expensive and shoddy 2D to 3D conversion was needed. ;-)

You're not telling me something I don't know already, but until 3-D software sales proves otherwise, the beancounters at the various studios will continue to poo poo 3-D releases of classic films. Those expensive and shoddy conversions are made to grab higher price ticket sales in theaters, but until they get similar results from software sales, I'm not optimistic about classic films being released in their native 3-D. In a lot of ways, software sales and not hardware sales will let the studios how much 3-D has penetrated the home video market. Many of the new televisions being sold today have 3-D, but software sales need to show some kind of shift towards 3-D which will be a key indicator to those studio beancounters.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

I was not aware of the previous situation, but I am not entirely sure I would have broached it in this interview. I am curious though.

Originally Posted by JParker /t/321298/exclusive-htf-interview-gretchen-wayne-on-the-blu-ray-release-of-hondo#post_3935419
Well, then, that's sad news, have you seen this Blu-ray yet? I've got it, haven't opened it yet or played it but I can't compare it to Mr. Symmes' work the way you can. It's one thing to reinvent the wheel, and it's another to come up with a cube!
Too bad, then, that Neil didn't ask Ms. Wayne what happened, unless a) he didn't know or b) he was being like John Wayne; it's water under the bridge, she's a lady, etc. I suspect she's no clue what happened and maybe the studio decided for her?
Well, maybe Symmes' work can be used in theatrical presentations.
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it! Have a great evening, and keep up the great work on reminding us of our (movie) history.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

The restoration was begun in April, 1994. Dan talks about it in great detail in his article. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/320871/a-few-words-about-hondo-in-blu-ray#post_3927816
There would have been no point in bringing this up with Gretchen.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Yes, it's clear she hasn't seen it in a long time. In years of reading interviews with celebrities and even conducting a few myself, it's often true that fans are sometimes more knowledgeable of a person's career than the person himself. Remember that interview with Dick Cavett when Katharine Hepburn had no recollection about Cary Grant's pushing her down in The Philadelphia Story. She couldn't even remember doing it.
Anyway, thanks for the interview, Neil. Hopefully there will be a 3D release of Hondo in the not too distant future.

Actually, I find that sometimes when people are engaged in conversation, things can come out wrong. In this case, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence was in black and white. The Quiet Man was not. She may well know that, but for whatever reason, the two films got mixed around in her speech. Anyway, terriffic interview. Quite a coup! People were wondering about this film, and you got Mrs. Wayne to talk to you. Wonderful job!

 

[Bob Furmanek]

There's a certain respect and protocol to be utilized when interviewing somebody of Ms. Wayne's stature. You don't get confrontational and even if you hear something that's not accurate, you don't go at them like you're Mike Wallace will all guns a-blazing.
When I did the interviews for our Abbott and Costello book, I talked with close to 100 people that had worked with Bud and Lou throughout their career. This was in 1990 and I was hearing stories that were up to 50 years old. The amount of wrong information I was given was astounding, but not once did I embarrass somebody by contradicting them. I took all the information and then used what was accurate for the book.

 

[JParker]

There's a certain respect and protocol to be utilized when interviewing somebody of Ms. Wayne's stature. You don't get confrontational and even if you hear something that's not accurate, you don't go at them like you're Mike Wallace will all guns a-blazing.

Yes, I agree; and if I were the interviewer, I'd ask a question, if the background is not too sensitive, about a fact. Per my original post, I wasn't even sure if Symmes' verions was used. I guess it's problematic that after Michael Wayne had an excellent working relationship with Symmes, for whatever reason, which is neither fair to Symmes nor her late husband, she stopped communicating with him. And gossip would be to ask why but I wouldn't think it would be confrontational to ask if she knew about this work and what happened with it (I hate to think it's in a dumpster or long incinerated) it, I suppose would have made a polite inquiry. And I suspect she'd have no idea what I was talking about. If Michael Wayne had paid for it, it's their property but sad all the same to think it's gone forever!
However, your point about contacting studios -- if you've connections, I hope Paramount will release more older or "library" titles. I don't know what's the deal that Olive films has "custody" over The Quiet Man, for example and why that's not out yet. And will they re-invent the wheel since a restoration already has been done? Have you ever spoken with the studios on their "back" catalog?
Brandon (Grace Kelly) Conway posted here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/320915/the-quiet-man-any-news-on-a-blu-ray-anniversary-release#post_3928629

Robert Harris stated the following back in 2005:
"The Quiet Man was properly restored by Robert Gitt of The UCLA Film & Television Archive several years ago. The problem with the film is not the elements."
Presumably, Olive will have access to these elements.
Twilight's Last Gleaming was slated for the summer even after the news about Olive acquiring the Republic titles was revealed. The do have some non-Republic titles announced for early August, so they are still releasing those. Perhaps September?

Let's hope for the best. But it is a shame if Symmes' work is no longer extant and if it was superior in quality to this new version. Would have saved money too, I guess.
Finally 3D Sales - I think Kosty, at the Lawrence thread, has statistics. He can tell us what 3D Blu-ray sales are like. I can't believe they're that low; look at the top sellers at Blu-ray.com and Amazon.com a lot of 3D titles of current hits, e.g., Avengers.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

My guess as to the reason why they did not utilize the previous, perfectly acceptable restoration? Easy. The production facility (the same one that claimed in 2007 that it was shot as a "color anaglyph") sold her a bill of goods. They probably claimed nothing that was done before was any good, and "we are all digital so let's start over and go back to the faded negatives."
That way, they could also charge more for the scene to scene color correction.

 

[JParker]

Kosty's graphic on 3D sales, 05/27/2012:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/321192/week-ending-05-27-12-blu-ray-sales-reports-discussion#post_3933622

 

[JParker]

My guess as to the reason why they did not utilize the previous, perfectly acceptable restoration? Easy. The production facility (the same one that claimed in 2007 that it was shot as a "color anaglyph") sold her a bill of goods. They probably claimed nothing that was done before was any good, and "we are all digital so let's start over and go back to the faded negatives."
That way, they could also charge more for the scene to scene color correction.

Thanks for the clever inference; I suspect it's true. Naming names - is it Warner's MPC division, that did, I think, African Queen for Paramount?
Funny how a Warner picture ends up at Paramount...
And above you'll see 3D Blu sales -- no higher than 30% of Green Lantern, but that's not too shabby. Avengers 3D is Blu-ray.com's # 3 seller, whatever that means; but it's the # 2 Blu best seller at Amazon.com as I type this. My point is a first time John Wayne 3D could have been a big best seller!
Thanks again, Bob!

 

[Kosty]

From last week's sales statistics reports from Nielsen Videoscan;
Blu-ray 3D sales as a portion of new releases is growing pretty rapidly now for new and recent releases and will improve in time.
But, its still a small market of people that have both a 3D HDTV and a Blu-ray 3D player using their 3D capable displays to watch in 3D. Some of those statistics below are people future proofing their buys and buying the most complete sku to get the extras, not to immediately watch in 3D right now.
Does not surprise me one it that the studios are in no rush to release their deeper catalog 3D titles right now and are instead waiting for the 3D user base to get larger.

more 2012 Blu-ray weekly sales reports charts graphs etc including weekly 3D sales performance in this thread

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Thanks for the clever inference; I suspect it's true. Naming names - is it Warner's MPC division, that did, I think, African Queen for Paramount?

Here's one of the factually-challenged articles that prompted Mr. Theakston and I to write our article in 2007:
http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/the_wire/2007/05/15/post-logic-studios-complete-restoration-color-correction-of-john-wayne-3d-feature-film/
Don't you just love the comment about it being shot as a "color anaglyph?"
Let's see: Black Lolita, Disco Dolls in Hot Skin, Hondo.
Yeah, that sounds right.

 

[JParker]

Here's one of the factually-challenged articles that prompted Mr. Theakston and I to write our article in 2007:
http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/the_wire/2007/05/15/post-logic-studios-complete-restoration-color-correction-of-john-wayne-3d-feature-film/
Don't you just love the comment about it being shot as a "color anaglyph?"
Let's see: Black Lolita, Disco Dolls in Hot Skin, Hondo.
Yeah, that sounds right.

Figured it wasn't Lowry, aka Reliance Media Works.
Post logic, post sanity, post honor! The Duke would've punched their lights out! Morons is being too kind!

 

[JParker]

From last week's sales statistics reports from Nielsen Videoscan;
Blu-ray 3D sales as a portion of new releases is growing pretty rapidly now for new and recent releases and will improve in time.
But, its still a small market of people that have both a 3D HDTV and a Blu-ray 3D player using their 3D capable displays to watch in 3D. Some of those statistics below are people future proofing their buys and buying the most complete sku to get the extras, not to immediately watch in 3D right now.
Does not surprise me one it that the studios are in no rush to release their deeper catalog 3D titles right now and are instead waiting for the 3D user base to get larger.
more 2012 Blu-ray weekly sales reports charts graphs etc including weekly 3D sales performance in this thread

Thanks, Kosty. And maybe, given the role of "post logic" and post to me seems to mean "after", maybe it's for the best. Post Intelligence too.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

At the time of working on HONDO, Post Logic's only previous 3-D experience was SPY KIDS 3.
No wonder Dan was upset!
In 2007, Variety stated: “Few people alive have seen it as it was meant to be seen, Hondo' in 3-D screened at only a few theaters and has almost never been seen in 3-D since.” In the same article, Gretchen Wayne is quoted: “I never really got it, it never really affected me that much...she says of the original 3-D, with its red-green anaglyph glasses.”
Another article stated: “Hondo was initially released in 3-D and played for a week in select major cities. However, Warner Bros. pulled the 3-D prints and general release prints were made in regular flat aspect ratio. Theater owners also found the projection process cumbersome, and the extra expense did not add appreciably to the box-office gross, so they preferred to show regular film prints.”
And still another: “It was one of very few stereoscopic 3D screenings of Hondo that the world had ever seen because Jack Warner, then president of Warner Bros. Studios, had become convinced that the 3D craze was over by the time the movie was ready to be released. Warner decided it was too expensive to release the movie wide in the stereoscopic format. Hondo was exhibited as a traditional 2D film that year, built out of the original left-eye negative."
Now do you know why Jack and I wrote the article?!

 

[JParker]

At the time of working on HONDO, Post Logic's only previous 3-D experience was SPY KIDS 3.
No wonder Dan was upset!
In 2007, Variety stated: “Few people alive have seen it as it was meant to be seen, Hondo' in 3-D screened at only a few theaters and has almost never been seen in 3-D since.” In the same article, Gretchen Wayne is quoted: “I never really got it, it never really affected me that much...she says of the original 3-D, with its red-green anaglyph glasses.”
Another article stated: “Hondo was initially released in 3-D and played for a week in select major cities. However, Warner Bros. pulled the 3-D prints and general release prints were made in regular flat aspect ratio. Theater owners also found the projection process cumbersome, and the extra expense did not add appreciably to the box-office gross, so they preferred to show regular film prints.”
And still another: “It was one of very few stereoscopic 3D screenings of Hondo that the world had ever seen because Jack Warner, then president of Warner Bros. Studios, had become convinced that the 3D craze was over by the time the movie was ready to be released. Warner decided it was too expensive to release the movie wide in the stereoscopic format. Hondo was exhibited as a traditional 2D film that year, built out of the original left-eye negative."
Now do you know why Jack and I wrote the article?!

Yes, I got you, a sad business, pathetic actually -- the facts are all wrong, based on what you provided -- (as I wrote above, Reliance Mediaworks, MPC and Mr. Harris must have a company she could contact to do restoration!) and I wonder why Michael Wayne didn't have Duke's other sons, his brothers, become involved with the business and these efforts. I suspect Patrick Wayne or Ethan Wayne would have superior business and technical expertise to his wife, but truly, I don't know her background. But "Post Logic" and SPY KIDS 3! Jeez! Maybe Ms. Wayne doesn't know who Robert Harris is? Or MPC or Reliance (Lowry) et. al.
Bob, Bobby H, Mr. Harris wrote on his thread: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/320871/a-few-words-about-hondo-in-blu-ray

The new Blu-ray, albeit not in 3D, is a generally great-looking release.
Where original elements were the basis of the image, which is the majority of the film, outside of main and end and printer functions (all of which were built in to the original) the film is stunning.
Where we go do dupes, the look is less so, especially as it appears that grain reduction appears to have been used to get around the look of the dupes.

Did the Symmes' version have the "dupe" issue, or is that only on the "Post Logic" work? If your answer doesn't get either one of us in trouble...

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Read Dan's full article on his restoration, I think it will answer many of your questions. He wrote:

I was quite surprised to find that 22 minutes, 26 seconds of HONDO was intermediate stock, and was very off color. That’s nearly 1/3 of the film.

 

[JParker]

Read Dan's full article on his restoration, I think it will answer many of your questions. He wrote

I was quite surprised to find that 22 minutes, 26 seconds of HONDO was intermediate stock, and was very off color. That’s nearly 1/3 of the film.

Yes, but I thought you posted people were shocked how good his restoration looked and it didn't look "dupey" or whatever Mr. H is talking about, it looked like a brand new print.
I'll have to re-read it but I thought there weren't any obvious issues that this Blu-ray has. And I'm sure a top notch firm, MPC or Reliance, could have done a better fix.