ENTERPRISE 05/21/'03: "The Expanse" (1 Viewer)

[Andy_Bu]

And do you suppose that this Star Blazers program originated this idea, such that JMS could not have gotten the idea from anywhere else (even written fiction)????

I have no idea where JMS got the story and story elements from and neither do you obviously.

I stand by what I said. There are many elements of Crusade and Star Blazers that are very very similar, not just the main plot.

I don't know where JMS got the idea, but I do know that I am hardly the first to notice the multiple connections between Crusade and Star Blazers.

If you want to discuss this further, please pm, since this has nothing to do with the thread topic.

Andy

 

[Will_B]

With the death of Duras by the hand of Archer, let's suppose he is the head of the same Duras family in the future, and his death ends the Duras family.

He may have been beamed off his ship by either of the two other Klingon ships.

 

[Ric Easton]

Or maybe he has a lot of brothers and sisters and cousins.

Ric

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Or maybe he has a lot of brothers and sisters and cousins.

Or already has had 1 or more sons!

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Andy_Bu wrote

(post #62):

Really, so why did you bring it up here in the first place? There is nothing to discuss. "Connexions" (i.e., similarities) do not necessarily prove source. Each may have "borrowed" independently from the same source, and, if so in this case, it's a pretty generic idea ("space quest to save the earth after alien attack"), I might add.

 

[Andy_Bu]

Each may have "borrowed" independently from the same source, and, if so in this case, it's a pretty generic idea ("space quest to save the earth after alien attack"), I might add.

I can point directly to Star Blazers as to whom Crusade borrowed from. If you wish to provide who Star Blazers borrowed from, please do so, and I am not talking about the main plot per say, which is generic enough.

If you think "space quest to save earth from alien attack" is the only similarity between Star Blazers and Crusade then you are gravely misinformed.

Andy

 

[TheLongshot]

Well, the only other thing in Crusade that I could gather could come from "Star Blazers" is the big gun on the ship is similar to the way the Wave Motion Gun behaves. That's about it.

Crusade's ship isn't a refurb, it isn't heading to a specific location for the cure, they aren't being persued by those who caused the problem, the crew isn't remotely the same.

That's two elements in a show where in the end, those elements were probably not going to be the major parts of the show...

Jason

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Andy_Bu wrote (post #67):

And, so, you think this Star Blazer was? And you didn't stop there. Oh, no! You accused J. Michael Straczynski of plagiarism with your "rip-off" remark.

I've got news for you: Nothing you get to see on television, and little of what's on the big screen, either, hasn't been done before on film or in literature.

Similarity does NOT in and of itself prove source of "inspiration". If it did, the number of lawsuits would multiply to heaven. I imagine both previous series---and now Enterprise, as well---have taken bits and pieces from various predecessors, literary and filmic. And I'm sure it would be pretty damned difficult, if not impossible, to prove that they hadn't.

 

[Nelson Au]

Just browsing around on Trekweb.com and saw this, maybe Q to show up on Enterprise. Not to add more fuel to the Ent bashing, and there's been enough of that here, but this was interesting to read. Not a good thing when they consider the use of Q:

Speaking in a conference call with the Ventura County Star about last week's season finale, producers Rick Berman and Brannon Braga say that just because ENTERPRISE is venturing into unexplored territory, fans don't have to worry about a repeat of the last TREK series.

"It's not a 'Lost in Space' like VOYAGER " Berman said. "They're not going to be out of touch with Earth." The exec added that familiar faces like the Klingons could pop up inside the Expanse.

Berman was tight-lipped about plans for Jolene Blalock's 'T'Pol', but revealed to the paper that she will begin to experiment with human emotions, and John Billingsley's 'Phlox' will help guide her on the way.

Braga said although parallels to 9/11 were not intentional in "The Expanse," the contemporary relevance is good for the series.

"The idea of aliens coming to destroy Earth has been around a lot longer than Sept. 11," Braga said. "But anytime we can explore a contemporary issue, it makes the show that much better."

Scott Bakula remains fired up for the new change, saying he urged the producers to let 'Archer' beef up.

"Rick, Brannon and I were talking about the first two seasons, what we had learned, and I felt it was time for (Archer) to take a stand," he says. "It was time for him to pick up something and pursue it."

Berman says another TREK legend has been on their minds recently, and could show up next season.

"We've discussed bringing back Q (John de Lancie); it's possible."

 

[Tony Whalen]

We've discussed bringing back Q (John de Lancie); it's possible

Now, I've been an optimist with this show, and I've even been enjoying it for the most part, so I wouldn't call myself a vocal critic of ENT. Heck, I defended the Borg episode! (FirstContact, timeline alteration...all that jazz)

However... I do NOT like that we had to have Klingon bad guys named "Duras" (so all the jerks in the Empire descend from one house now?), and the idea of introducing Q is just a bad one.

B&B.. Bold NEW direction. Remember the new part. New doesn't mean Q.

I think my main complaint of the show is that they have SO much to work with, and they are ignoring all of it.

Formation of the Federation anyone? Or the Earth/Romulan wars?

I'm looking forward to this whole "Delphic Expanse" storyline... but Q? No thank you. Been there, done that.

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

B&B.. Bold NEW direction. Remember the new part. New doesn't mean Q.

But, as with SO MANY things on Enterprise, if they do it right, it would be great.

After all, Q was always railing against Picard that humans were a petty, warlike species, yes? Well, here's where he becomes interested.

Q is kicking around the Delphic expanse, doing things to people to watch them twitch, his usual thing. He sees the NX-01 come in, eventually find the Xindi/Vindi/whatever and totally nuke them. Boom, gone. Maybe on purpose, maybe by accident; the aliens are building their thingy in orbit, the Enterprise blows it to hell, and it crashes onto the surface and causes a cataclysm. Hell, maybe Trip takes things into his own hands and does something terrible.

THIS is what winds up codifying the 'non interference' idea into the Prime Directive; Starfleet just committed genocide, and lots of the humans who you ask about it thought it was, as they say, a pretty neat idea. Deserved, at least, in this case. And, it's what kicks off Q's interest in humanity.

 

[DeathStar1]

I can see Q on Enterprise, especially since one of the books has him mention 'I think I'll visit Kirks erra one of these days'.

Just don't show him to the crew. Have a strange series of events happen with the Q effect, and see how the crew deal with it.

 

[Norm]

I have no problem with Q coming to Enterprise. Infact I like the idea.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Wouldn't it be great if Enterprise's Chef were revealed to be Whoopi Goldberg

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Or Rob, what if Chef was revealed to be:

Isaac Hayes

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

But, as with SO MANY things on Enterprise, if they do it right, it would be great.

Oh come on. This is Enterprise which has borrowed so many ideas in its first two season the show has clearly shown that it has no creative direction of its own.
The whole reason this show and Voyager were started in the first place was so they could start, have a clean slate and go in a new direction. Voyager never did and Enterprise in its first two season have already fallen back on old school too much and and had someone from the future messing things up.
People have said it before and I will say it again. Enterprise and Trek are doomed if they keep the same creative staff.
Ive seen nothing to keep me watching the show.
Maybe this could all be forgiven if there were well rounded intersting character but we dont have that either. We have decontamination scenes all the time where the crew is walking around rubbing themselves down in their underwear. and the obligatory woman in a tight catsuit.

Q has been done before quite successfully on TNG and unscussfully on Voyager and DS9.
Let the character rest as they should have done with the franchise.

 

[Will_B]

Berman was tight-lipped about plans for Jolene Blalock's 'T'Pol', but revealed to the paper that she will begin to experiment with human emotions, and John Billingsley's 'Phlox' will help guide her on the way.

Well that explains why she acted angry and upset at the Vulcan guy when he told her she would enjoy being back on Vulcan, and she argued that at least she'd rather stay in San Francisco, and he told her she'd been around humans too long.

But we don't need another 7of9 and the Doctor rehash, please.

 

[Jason Seaver]

But, as with SO MANY things on Enterprise, if they do it right, it would be great.

Oh come on.

Actually, Enterprise's potential is huge, if Berman & Braga had treated it as "future historical fiction", to coin an unweildy phrase. Treat it like a pivotal period in history, filled with interesting personalities and huge stakes, and you've got a heck of a lot of potential. After all, just because we know how World War II ended doesn't mean we don't eat stories about it up.

The combination between the lavish effects budget and a point in time when space was not yet the somewhat comfortable place it had become by the 24th Century certainly excited me when the show first started. I still dig whenever they have to put on EVA suits or visit a non-Class-M environment (you can dig up the review threads for the pilot if you'd like - heck, I think even Jack Briggs was jazzed at the non-TCW stuff there).

But over the past two years, they've strayed so far from what made "Broken Bow" pretty cool. Remember a couple months ago, that "Archer-on-trial" episode? That should have been the biggest episode of the series. Everyone I know who watched it could see how its events could be a turning point for humanity, and thus the series. It was pregnant with possibility.

But it wound up being Just Another Episode. Sure, its events were referred to later on, but considering how prominent Trek's place in American pop culture is, it was a let down, because the producers just don't recognize the potential of what they're dealing with.

The sad part is, there's some talent here. The cast is good, the production values are top notch. Even among the writer/producers - Sussman & Strong seem to have a genuine affection for Trek history and trivia, and Shiban can write pretty good action/adventure given the chance. The guys at the top, though...

Anyway, Enterprise has potential; the concept is strong. Imagine it in the hands of Ronald D. Moore or Robert H. Wolfe. Imagine if the writers were thinking like Straczynski did when making Babylon 5 ("let's tell a big story about a turning point in human history") as opposed to, well, being Rick Berman and Brannon Braga ("let's come up with an environment that looks new but lets us do the same thing we've been doing for the last ten years").