"DVD/CD rot" goes mainstream. Interesting story from AP. (1 Viewer)

[Citizen87645]

And I guess that guy in the photo won't be the next Unabomber since he's embraced the CD technology, though CD rot might drive him over the edge

 

[nousername]

I wish all CDs and DVDs would come in cartridges (like some DVD-RAM disks). This is probably not economically feasible or practical, but it would reduce or eliminate a lot of scratching and damage due to mishandling.

Oh well... Nothing last forever!

 

[Ben_@]

Allan, that reminds me of the old CD-ROMs where you had to put the CD into a little case that resembled an over-sized minidisc before inserting it into the drive. Wow, thanks for that flashback.

I think the main issue for that solution is space. It would be like having the CD in its case the entire time. And of course there would be some additional packaging on top of that.

This thread and article have now made me a little paranoid about how I handle my discs. I've even started looking at switching over to better designed cases.

 

[Terry H]

That is NOT true. It said his cabin was heated by a wood burning stove and the temp would vary by 30 degrees in the space of a few hours. So what? If you leave CDs in your car after going somewhere and bring them back into your house when you return they are subjected to much worse. In winter if the temp is 20 degrees and you return them to a 70 degree house that is a change of 50 degrees, and that is hardly an extreme example.

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Some of the CDs that I bought in the 80s had pinholes before the end of that decade. I haven't checked them lately but I'll bet they'll still play. CDs do have a form of Reed-Solomon error correction code which can correct burst errors of up to 2.5 millimeters. DVDs have better Reed-Solomon which can correct burst errors up to 6.5 millimeters.

This article should have mentioned the fair use backup battle. The discs are going to rot, but we can't make a backup copy without violating the DMCA, and even if we do, then the shelf life of the DVD-R backup is in question also.

 

[Matt_H]

ok this is as good of a place as any to ask but how do you get dscs out of packaging such as the tombstone vista series dvd? That has to be the hardest disc for me to remove and I know i'm not doing it properly.

 

[Michael Hall]

Thankfully I've never had any problems with DVD "rot" (other than my "A.I." DVD starting to pixellate about three or four months ago; DreamWorks sent me a free replacement copy a few weeks back-thanks to them!), but I had a few CDs that experienced "rot" (or what is referred to as "bronzing" on a few of the websites devoted to the problem).

Apparently, the PDO company in the UK did a run of CDs in the late 1980's/early 1990's that were not bound properly, and the CD booklets caused some kind of chemical reaction that made the discs start to turn brown on the data side and over time, the music would be unplayable. It would start out by hearing slight static on the last few tracks on the CDs, and progressively get worse. This happened to several of my CDs (Coil's "Scatology" and Faith No More's "Live at the Brixton Academy" for example) and in one case (the FNM disc), the disc started to "flake" away on the data side. I'm fairly anal-retentive when it comes to my CDs/DVDs/books/etc so I was freaked out that this was happening since I take very good care of my things.

PDO understood the problem (it's fairly widespread from that time period with them) and replaced my discs free of charge. They were very friendly and apologetic when I was talking to them through email, and sent replacements out promptly). Normally I wouldn't have a problem with going out and getting replacement copies of damaged discs (I'm one of the old guard who likes to have the actual product as opposed to a computer file), but since they were from the UK and (in several cases) out of print, it was kind of cost-prohibitive for a po' college student.

One thing I would like to know about though, Grant...



Mind telling more about these? I've never heard of them before, and I'd love to get something nice and, as you put it, indestructible to put my SE CDs in.

 

[Eric F]

Ah come on, this issue is overblown/overinflated.

With millions of these cranked out a year, what percentage goes bad? I'd really like to see the numbers.

How many of us have CDs over 20yrs old and have not had a single problem?

 

[george kaplan]

I'd like to know what the logic is for keeping dvds and cds upright. I understand it with lps, since being on the bottom of a stack of lps could certainly cause warping. But given the nature of cd and dvd cases, how does stacking this cause problems. I keep mine upright like books anyway, but I'm wondering why stacking them the other way would supposedly cause problems.

 

[Randy A Salas]

I have 4,000 CDs and about 6,000 DVDs and have never, ever, not once had anything approaching "rot" in either format. While I obviously don't play through them all continually, I do revisit them regularly over the years. My CDs go back to the dawn of the format, including many UK imports from the infamous PDO scare, when I worked in a record store and bought hundreds of them. I have not had a single problem. The sheer number of my collection would dictate that at least some would turn up if this were a widespread problem. I really have to question how discs are being handled or stored by people who regularly report problems.

 

[Todd Stout]

I have been buying CDs since late 1985 and probably own around 2000 of them currently. I have so far only encountered what appears to be rot in one of them. It is the 1987 self titled Whitesnake CD which I purchased that same year. About a year ago I noticed circular discolorations in the disc which when held up to the light have small holes in the centers. Interestingly enough, it still seems to play okay. Thankfully that is a CD that is still in print and I just bought a new copy to be safe.

 

[Eric F]

Once again, a case of Urban Legend being carried by the press as fact.

Poor handling or a manufacturing defect does not = DVD ROT.

 

[Todd Robertson]

nothing is rotting. it's delamination and it's because of piss-poor quality control at the pressing plants. we can blame the cases and hubs all we want. the problem, I believe, starts at the plant. born to be bad. it's easier to blame everything else because who the hell will listen at the plants? forget about it.

I have thousands of LP's and they all play like champs...and they are not falling apart. the vinyl is outlasting discs....what a joke. seems like a damn nightmare. I've had 17 out of over 1,500 dvd titles...go bad. I'm so anal about my care for the library that people think I'm nuts. I even encase EVERY dvd in it's own plastic, re-sealable sleeve/bag. you coudnt find 1 dvd with a fingerprint...unless it was put there by someone at the plant!! improper bonding is a big problem. using poor materials is another. not paying attention and not giving a damn is a huge problem too. lets face it....quality control is taking a nap in the back room...and nobody it seems can do a damn thing about it.

everybody wants to kill off dvd so they can have their blue lasers or HD-DVD or whatever you want to call the next format. be warned. the neglected problems of the dvd will re-surface on the next and the next and the next disc format. the problem will continue on...because nobody cared. longevity is the issue. not big-headed covers, snappers, forced trailers, no inserts...we cry about the dumbest things. now a dvd not lasting because of manufacturing problems...I wish more people would pop out of denial and shed tears over that. priorities are all messed up...someone, please, take control.

btw...I have a few thousand cd's....omly about 30 problem discs...but I cant say they were in perfect shape either. it's not cd's I'm worried about anyway. my radio station was one of the first to feature cd music back in the 80's. in 1988 I talked about the pinholes forming in some discs. thats right...we knew about it then.

 

[CraigF]

^^ I agree. We were charged a premium price for these media LARGELY based on the supposition that they would last "forever". It sure isn't manufacturing cost, as we all know what we can make a CD or DVD for ourselves (never mind "their" cost), and it ain't royalties, not when VHS sells for half the price of the same thing on DVD.

I sure hope *something* is done if these media start failing in massive numbers across the board, they can't blame it just on disc treatment by owners.

There may be some hype in this article. An occasional disc pinholing or delaminating is acceptable, in that sometimes things go wrong, and bad batches of everything sometimes get made (I get more concerned about cars myself). I have occasionally heard of somebody with an unusually large number of failed discs, and then I really have to blame it on the owner and their handling/storage. I have noticed that people who grew up in the age of LP's tend to treat discs a little more carefully, though some people abuse everything.

 

[Michael Hall]

Randy, this might certainly be the case with a lot of people, but PDO came right out and admitted their mistake and have taken steps to rectify it, and in their particular case, it is a very widespread problem. I'm certainly glad that you seem to have lucked out and not had this happen to any of your discs, but many are/were not that lucky. Like I said in my first post, I am very anal retentive when it comes to taking care of my discs, be they CD or DVD, and out of about 700 or so CDs in my collection, I've only had "rot" on three discs, and all three of those were pressed by PDO UK in the early 1990's.

In general, having scratches on your CD is one thing and most likely the owner's fault; having your CD turn brown for no reason is a completely different matter. While I see many people's point that some are using "rot" as an excuse for their own poor handling of their discs, the fact remains that "real rot" is happening to people who are very careful in handling their collections, so to say that "rot" is a total fabrication or urban legend is not accurate at all.

 

[Randy A Salas]

I never said that.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

It's considered 'rot' because the disc's ability to play deteriorates over time. 'Rot' is a perfect word to describe the problem.

 

[Carlo_M]

Light and heat can really do a number on CDs over time.

I have some 500-600 CDs dating back to 1988, and not one of them suffers from rot. Of course, I'm also anal about my CDs (keep them indoors, away from heat, etc.). I do have a friend who kept a CD in his car (in it's case but out in the open) for years and the thing looks like it might be on its last legs.

Here at work we use Imation CD-Rs and one of them which was left in the sun literally had the protective coating peel right off (and is useless now).

I've had more instances of DVD-rot though (mostly early RSDL discs)...

 

[Chris Stainton]

Yesterday I started holding my oldest cd's up to a light to see if they had any problems. I did notice tiny pinholes in certain discs. I played the very first cd I ever bought (purchased in early 87), which had the pinholes and it played perfectly.

I also checked a disc that I just bought and it too had a couple pinholes. It plays fine as well.

 

[Michael Hall]

Didn't mean for it to sound like I was saying you had, Randy. The second paragraph of my post was speaking more in general terms. My apologies if it came across as a personal thing, as it was not inteded to be so.