DVD-Audio: A Booming Format? Or Is It Floundering? (1 Viewer)

[Paul.S]

AricB:

"In an abundance of caution," as the lawyers say, and to make sure we don't get confused about formats while talking about format confusion . . .

Kyle isn't referring to DTS CDs (and I don't think there was/is one for Porcupine Tree's In Absentia or Steve Stevens' Flamenco A Go-Go). He's referring to DVD-A titles released by DTS Entertainment, Inc.

I think you know this and meant to say "DVD-A" and not "dts" in your second sentence above, which would have been more accurate. A nit perhaps, but as soon as DTS started releasing DVD-As and re-released their CDs in the same packaging, it became very important to be very precise about what your referring to.

Thx for chiming in, Rich--good post. My Amazon Wish List is littered with DVD-As I want, so I too have a lot I wanna buy. But wow have there been a lot of missed opportunities to grow the format.

-p

 

[AricB]

I was referring to the way Amazon has it listed, I believe it was the same way kyle referred as dts-cd, which it is not. They are both dvd-a's produced by dts entertainment, which their website lists on seperate pages from the cd's, i believe.

sorry if it wasnt clear enough.

 

[Paul.S]

Not as of this typing at least. Amazon has Flamenco correctly identified as a DVD-A.

-p

 

[Lee Scoggins]

This is DVDAs biggest problem. WMG is sitting on a gold mine of titles but almost none get to DVDA.

 

[AricB]

NO! I would bet there are more people with mediocre surround sound systems, sony dream systems etc..., than people who have high end equipment to show off the nuances of high res stereo material like that. Lots of people will benefit from multi channel, and of course they should include the high res stereo tracks as some prefer it. But I will absolutely stop buying any and all discs(either format) that dont include a decent mullti channnel mix. IMHO, most people(average joe's) will percieve added clarity from the seperation of instruments in surround vs. high res stereo being played back on tinny sounding sony dream systems fronts.

Paul, they may have fixed it, or maybe I was thinking of the Megadeath DTS DVD-A, I ordered a few at one time? a couple months ago.??

 

[Iver]

The problem with hi-rez audio from a marketing standpoint is that it solves a non-existent problem, that problem being consumers' discontent with the quality of Redbook CD audio.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I think you are mixing markets. If DVDA is to catch on, it probably needs more audiophile support to get the software sales up. Audiophiles overwhelmingly want 2 channel and the best 192k sound possible.

I was not really focusing on MC but having that in addition would be a big plus.

The strategy may be different if they try to go mainstream but I think that ship has sailed and judging from the comments here from most of you.

 

[AricB]

i think the idea is to go mainstream, that's the benefit(for the record company) of the copy protection on these discs. but their not going to be like "hey, buy this new more expensive disc because you cant(harder/more expensive) copy it" duh who would buy it. They need to sell it with the coolness of hirez and multichannel, and maybe even dedicated mp3 mixes to get it going.

I could be wrong, and dont really care to argue it as it's just my opinion, but it doesnt seem that audiophiles have enough mass, especially in one genre of music to make it successful. some want classical, some pop, some jazz, some rock. they need more universal titles that appeal to different people as well as the masses, DSOTM. Also new titles, Radiohead, Tool, NIN, done well, like the steely dan's and beck, and also flaming lips but with more mass appeal.

I dont have nearly as much background as many here about the high level specifics of formats, and record company inside info. I've just been patiently waiting for the last 3 years, and been repeatedly disappointed with the output.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

My opinion is that there enough dollars to keep Super Audio around as a niche and possibly DVDA too. I am just basing this on the fact that a number of boutique labels are profitable and revenue can be in the tens of millions of dollars and staff requirements are pretty low.

As far as mainstream, we will have to see what they do with DualDisc but the track record is not so good. I hope that things can be worked out or forced even into one new hidef video format and that can be a platform for hirez sound options as well.

I understand your disappointment with the output but that may change. There are some terrific jazz and classical titles out there in both formats.

I am not sure if multichannel is really catching on with the masses. I see the appeal to the home theater crowd but getting beyond that is tough since most people don't have the five speakers and sub or even more than two.

 

[AricB]

I dont have any intimate knowledge of boutique labels, so you may be correct. But I'm guessing most of these have narrow genre based catalogs?? and usually classical and jazz. I'm not really interested in those, even though I have given some jazz a try...

I just think you really need to appeal to both the high rez 2 ch and multi channel on 1 disc, not one or the other. between the 2 camps, people who have surround equipment, even HTIB, and people who have high quality 2 ch setups, then you might get the mass number needed to entice major labels who are putting out different style music all across the board, like a shot gun effect, here's a britney, flaming lips, steely dan, elton ohn, metallica.... hmmm, were not generating enough interest??? well duh, most fans of those bands wouldnt likely buy more than 2 maybe 3 of those different discs.

but sacd did well with dylan, stones and floyd. they'd be in good shape if they got some more floyd out, continued with some of the newer titles along the lines of, beck, new bowie, norah jones, thorns, new steely dan, upcoming snow patrol AND if they would have done some 5.1 stones. sympathy for the devil sounded pretty good, I'd have liked a whole album. dvd-a just needs to do the same, but with the head start sacd has with dylan, stones, floyd, and others it will be tough to catch up.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Don't forget Mission of Burma. James Guthrie keeps hinting about more Floyd. DSOTM was a big hit...I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Rachael B]

Iver makes the most asute point lately in this thread. I don't want to discount what he's saying too much, just a little though. When the format change was from LP & 8-track & cassette, to, well, basically CD & cassette as a little sidekick, kin'a like batman and robin, damn this run-together sentence is getting long. I'll start a new one, I don't think there was a groundswell of consumer desire for CD back then. We had tape for portable already. CD was pushed on the market, or atleast shoved forward a few times.

They actually advertised CD though, they actually released titles, and it was a unified format which makes it a flawed analogy to today's situation to a certain extent. Well, to a some greater extent because of the keyword : unified format.

I've never seen an ad for either new format on TV. Has there been one? If I was advertising the new formats, I'd hire musicans to go on TV and inform the public. However, with no unified format, that might be a waste of time...?

Maybe Warner Brudders and Sony should pick champions to joust and fight with broadswords? Is there just gonna be a big schism in the entertainment industry forever, from now on?

I aggree with Iver to a great extent in the end.

 

[Chu Gai]

2nd that.

 

[Yee-Ming]

But isn't the reason CD succeeded that it was a durable replacement to vinyl? Easy for klutzes to handle with little risk of damage, yet with track search (unlike cassette) -- indeed CD track search is better than LP.

The problem with SACD and DVD-A is they are too similar to CD in terms of benefits that the ordinary consumer appreciates. Improved sonic quality is, regrettably, something associated only with audiophiles. Iver said it brilliantly:-

Rachael/Lee, are you guys talking about Jacintha Abishegenathan? Seeing as you've referenced her work with Jeremy Monteiro, another Singaporean. Can't believe a Singaporean singer is getting discussed favourably on a US-based internet forum

 

[Rachael B]

Yee-Ming, I think we are indeed talking about the same Jacintha! She's a well-respected jazz artist here. She's not a household word here. Jazz ain't all that popular here in it's motherland. She's on one of the better audiophile labels here, Groove Note, who issue some mighty fine SA-CD's.

Her last name is new to me. I haven't the least idea how to pronounce it. If it's been printed on any of the albums, I have not noticed it. Is it shorter or easier to write in Chinese?

Oh, what kind of stuff has she done for the Asian market/s? Just jazz or what, anything else...? How big is she there?

She's good at what she does. I like her alot. I really like the album with Jeremy M.! It's more like a tribute to Leon Russell than the Carpenters. The two Russell cuts stick out and beg, encore, to me, anyway... Best wishes!

 

[Yee-Ming]

I just popped into the CD shop at lunchtime, indeed it is our local Ja!

Anyway, Abishiganaden is an Indian name -- although I am told she's half-Indian, half-Chinese (her mother's Chinese). Just pronounce it the way it's spelled: ah-be-shee-ga-NAA-den, stress on the second-last syllable.

For want of a better way to describe her, she's been a celebrity of sorts, obviously known for singing (generally, she's not really known for jazz here), and some acting. Also "known" for marrying another local singer, Dick Lee, which subsequently ended in divorce.

Just did a search on Yahoo.sg, have a look:-
http://www.singart.com.sg/artists/bio33b.asp

(Hmmm, didn't know she'd remarried. Also corrected my spelling.)

Off hand, I don't know of any stuff she's done for the Asian market specifically, but if there's any earlier material, it probably won't be jazz related -- there might be soundtracks to local musicals she starred in. I get the impression she's focused on jazz in recent years; I guess she's found her niche?

 

[Angelo.M]

Furthermore, all evidence indicates that consumers are more than satisfied with music formats of lower resolution than Redbook CD. If there is a paradigm shift in the marketplace, it will be toward increasing sales of low-rez, highly portable formats.

All the typical consumer cares about is convenience and value. Compressed audio provides both. Hi-rez, neither, at least in relation to the lower-rez formats.

None of this is new. We've been writing about this in these threads for a long, long time.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I agree for the most part. The way around this is to bundle it with hidef video and do one massive launch.

 

[Angelo.M]

I completely disagree.

The typical consumer is more than satisfied with the quality of the average Redbook CD and with compressed music files.

Most folks are happy if music sounds decent in their car, on their portable player, cranked to 11 at a party, in the background, etc. "Critical listeners" are few and far between, and I highly doubt that folks who buy and enjoy music in the currently popular formats are kicking themselves and wishing their software sounded better.

Educate them all you like. Folks are not going to turn away from low-rez formats. If a high-rez CD "sounds better" but doesn't play in their car CD deck, forget about it. If they can't rip a hi-rez track to .aac and load it on their iPod, forget about it.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Well we might disagree on sonic satisfaction, but we do agree that hirez could help itself a lot by offering a path to playback in the car. I would not be opposed to making hirez downloadable in some form as well, but I am not optimistic given the copyright concerns of the labels. This is unfortunately likely a positive for hirez in the Big 5 label's eyes although it probably means more titles and support for hirez fans as a result.