DualDisc may not be "all that" according to this (1 Viewer)

[LanceJ]

The following amateur marketing speculation courtesy of Advertising Age, which I used to regularly read in my college's library.
If the marketing people have done their homework, they won't be using the phrase "dvd-audio" on these discs. The labels must know by now most people don't care about hi-res audio, so to prevent serious confusion among non-audiophiles the packaging won't make a fuss over this (i.e. the hi-res feature won't be highlighted).

Universal must have thought this was a good idea: except for the removable sticky outer label on their Guero deluxe edition, that word was practically nowhere to be seen. It is on the disc itself, but you almost literally need a magnifying glass to read it. We already know what hi-res is all about so won't need that feature to be marketed in any special way.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I don't know man.

I give them credit for trying one more time. But I just don't see the market. Here would be a question for anyone who thinks that people really want music with video content: how well do concert DVDs sell? Me? I don't want any video with my audio. One reason why I always preferred SACD to DVD-A.

I *do* buy concert DVDs, but that's because if I am listening to a band live, sometimes I want to see them live too. But not for studio stuff. And I bet the concert DVD market is no where near as big as the CD market for a typical release.

I suppose that I don't have to watch the video, as long as I'm getting good quality surround sound mixes.

I still say: go for niche market/small volume stuff/at a possible premium price, and there's your market. If they're going after the masses? I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I still don't know what to expect about the new DVD Album or if it will find any market at all. I still continue to buy DualDiscs and the CD side continues to not work in most of my players. Although I can live with that, I wonder what happens when someone buys one and it can't play in their CD player so they return it. Does the retailer point out the language on the package that states it may not play in some CD players? That problem sure made it a stupid format. I guess a big percentage gets returned.

Chris

 

[LanceJ]

Gee Kevin, you're harshin' my surround buzz.

Chris: non-functional DDs aren't only a hassle for cusotmers but also for retailers since they have to deal with an irritated customer; try to provide a substitute (probably at the store's expense); or send it back to the music label & hopefully get some credit for it.

And I wish I could get more details on that rumor(?) about DDs being more expensive to produce than a CD+dvd package. I first read that on Steve Hoffman's site - it was written by someone who seemed to have some solid insider knowledge.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I understand DualDiscs are a real pain for retailers. Call me stupid but I just ordered the Bjork Surrounded 7-disc DualDisc set. CD side not playing is a pain but my PC can read them and copy most to CD-R so I can play them in my auto. CD side not playing in my DVD player hasn't been an issue. Regardless of the fact I like them, I can sure understand why the format bombed.

Chris

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Lance- DualDiscs have to be more expensive to make than CD + DVD sets. 2 reasons:

1) There is no "attachment" of a CD to a DVD with a 2-fer. There will be a certain amount of yield loss during that operation. So yield is lower, which means that the per unit cost is slightly higher.

2) And, direct yield is lower, so per unit cost is higher. Let's say CD yield is 95% and DVD yield is 90%. So with a 2-fer package, out of 100 CDs and 100 DVDs I have 90 complete sets, with 5 CDs left over for the next batch. But for a Dual Disc because you put them together, the final yield is actually 0.95X0.90 = 85%.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I'm trying not to get mad.

I think most of us know that Steve Hoffman is going to do a version of the Peppers new release ... for lp.

I just found out that he's also going to do an lp version for the Yes Album.

WTF?!?!

Why not versions for CD? And this just also reaffirms my belief that there *is* a market out there for small volume, specialty releases. A la SACD and DVD-A multichannel mixes. I really wish the record companies would get a freaking clue.

 

[LanceJ]

Kevin: didn't know about the yield issue - thanks. So I guess the marketing people hoped dualdisc would be a success becuase of its "wow" factor? And I guess they hoped the pseudo-CD side's problems wouldn't interfere with that.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

The CD side problems couldn't be overcome and everybody involved should have known that. With DVD-Audio already a failure, partly because of confusion and partly because it is likely only going to appeal to a very small market, it is an puzzle what market DualDisc was expected to find.

Chris

 

[Kevin C Brown]

If Dual Disc had *really* taken off, I bet manufacturers would have modified new players to deal with the differences. Oh well.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I think there were just too many million players already in households that couldn't deal with them.

Chris

 

[Kevin C Brown]

To be honest, I think that the problem with the CD layer was only a very small part of DD's demise. Most people I know , didn't buy these discs for the CD layer anyway. They bought them for the high res (in some cases), multichannel content. But the market has spoken. Most people simply don't care about multichannel music.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I bought them for both. I wanted to be able to play the discs in my car and had no way to do that with DVD-A. It is clear the marketplace wasn't interested for whatever reason, but I do think the CD problem was a serious issue.

Chris

 

[Brian Little]

Exactly. Joe Sixpack saw the warning label on the back on the DualDiscs and put it right back and grabbed the CD version instead. And the fact that Joe Sixpack saw that the DualDisc costed more even if it was typically a dollar or two more. Or any benefit for them as many discs on the DVD end were LIGHT on any good content (how many DD's had MC mixes on them... not many).

Therefore.... I think I summed up why DD failed.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

If the CD layer was a contributing factor for the death of DD, then why did SACD fail? SACD hybrid discs have a 100% redbook compliant CD layer.

DD failed, along with SACD and DVD-A, because "Joe Sixpack" doesn't care about high res multichannel music. He does care about his iPod though.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

The SACD layer couldn't be played on DVD or CD players and SACD started out as single layer and damage was done right from the start for that format. If the CD side had been compliant, I think DualDisc could have been a minor success. Since DualDisc always contained a DVD side that can be played on any DVD player if the CD side could be played on any CD/DVD player, we have a disc that most anybody can play. A format needs to be easily understood and the first one taken home needs to work or that customer is lost.

I have lots of SACD's, DVD-A's and DualDiscs and hybrid SACD is far and away my personal favorite.

Chris

 

[LanceJ]

drum roll!!

Here it is, the first dvd album:

The Sun: Blame It On The Youth Includes fourteen videos, and pre-ripped tracks.

At Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/thesun

I've never heard of these guys. Music isn't too bad I guess.

Here's an exceprt from a Spin magazine review of the band and the album:

Someone over at quadraphonicquad.com said he bought one of these already from ebay and said the label listed 5.1 Dolby and LPCM tracks, and the fact it is the world's first dvd album.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I bought the world's first DVD Album by The Sun. The DVD defaults to PCM 2.0 on my player so I needed a display to select the Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. I have that player connected to a projector and prefer not to turn the projector on to listen to music so I need to figure out how to access the surround sound without a display. I like the music and the surround mix is ok, overall it is certainly nothing to be excited about, but the format seems like it might have a chance. It wasn't obvious to me how to transfer the audio files to a CD when I just briefly accessed the files on my PC although that is probably because I don't know what I am doing. I liked DualDisc and I like this format and will consider more purchases. I had never heard of The Sun but found a few reviews and snippets of music online before buying this and was confident I would like it.

Chris

 

[Chris Gerhard]

As far as I can tell this album was released on DVD last year since I read reviews on Amazon.com that were written last year. It was probably a test market disc that is just now getting a full release.

Chris