DSLR advice? What camera's and lens to consider? (1 Viewer)

[ManW_TheUncool]

Oh, RE: D50 vs D70, just check the specs lists, and you'll see pretty much all the minor differences:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/

RAW IQ is about the same (w/ D70/D70s being ever so slightly sharper at pixel level and a bit more prone to moire artifacts both due to weaker AA filter) though in-camera JPEGs can be a touch better on the D50 (and D70s) compared to the old D70. I forget now, but the D50 might also have a more pleasant, less contrasty native tone curve than the D70. I usually needed to apply a custom tone curve (or tweak it a little in post) to get the kind of results I (and most others) prefer when using the D70 -- well, I usually do tweak somethings anyway if I intend to show the photos to anyone other than some quick snaps for the family. BTW, the custom tone curve feature is one nice thing about Nikon, if you want to shoot in-camera JPEGs w/ a different look than what's offered in the menu. Some folks like to load in a custom curve that simulates the Velvia look for instance -- and you can google for various popular custom curves. Canon started to add this feature to their pro bodies also, but it's not available in their non-pro bodies yet AFAIK.

Anyway, the D70 has a few nice features not offered in the D50, but they are mostly about convenience and are not that necessary. Something like DOF preview sounds nice to have, but in practice, it's not a big deal since the viewfinders (on these two) are probably too small for that to matter. The D70 offers a built-in, basic, wireless flash commander, which can be nice to use on occasion. OTOH, if you like using on-board flash, the D50's on-board flash is a tad more powerful and is raised high enough to not be partially blocked when shooting w/ something like the 18-70 at/near the wide end.

The D50's spot meter seems to be a bit less useful (w/ its bigger spot) than the D70, so that's something else you might care about.

And yeah, it's nice to have the extra command dial (on the front) along w/ an extra button or so on the back, but that's mainly just a convenience thing.

The D70 offers 1/8000s shutter speed, but I haven't needed it myself. You pretty much need to be shooting at the bright afternoon sky at f/2.8 or so to need that. I suppose there might be use for such a high speed if you like shooting portraits or the like w/ shallow DOF under brightly lit afternoon sunlight. There's always the option of adding an ND filter (to cut down the light) for such instances though.

Although their viewfinders are similar in size and brightness, I seem to recall the D50 having somewhat better placement for AF points (for my taste anyway). I could be remembering wrong though. OTOH, the D70 does offer optional grid lines in its viewfinder that the D50 does not, which you may or may not care.

If you shoot often in low light (and want to minimize noise/grain), you may find the D70's 1/3-EV steps for ISO setting to be useful. It does help to be able to choose something between 800 and 1600 (or even 400 and 800). Some of the more savvy D50 users use its Auto ISO function to get at those in-between ISOs -- certainly, makes Auto ISO that much more useful on the D50. BTW, Nikon's implementation of Auto ISO is another nice feature that hasn't made its way into Canon's non-pro bodies yet. Nikon's Auto ISO will even work in M mode, which basically turns ISO into just another meter-controlled variable much like shutter speed in aperture priority mode (when you fix the ISO).

One thing I didn't like about the D70 is that it does not provide 100% magnification for image review on its LCD, which makes it just about impossible to check for picture sharpness during the shoot, eg. for focus error, slight camera shake blur, etc. Can't remember if the D50 was any better in this regard.

The D50 supports full USB 2.0 transfer whereas the D70 does not, so if you like transfering straight from camera to computer, that helps.

I'm sure there are a few other minor differences I'm overlooking.

_Man_

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

RE: what else might be coming soon from Nikon, I can't imagine anything to replace the D80 -- maybe there will be a very minor update like D80s, but probably nothing worth waiting for. Nikon doesn't churn out significantly new DSLR replacements that fast -- the D40/D40x is the only exception worthy of note, and there won't be a D80x since the D80 is already 10MP. If anything, maybe there will be a very minor update of a D200s (or maybe not) since it's been 1.5 years now.

The next signifcantly new Nikon body will probably be the rumored D3h or D3x (or plain D3) pro body later this year(?) and the rumored potential of FF (or possibly 1.1x crop) in that body. Even though most of us will not spend the $4K+ on it, it's certainly one flagship body that's got everyone in Nikon-land waiting on pins-and-needles mainly because of the rumors about FF (or 1.1x crop) -- and what that might hold for the rest of us in the future. And if Nikon offers a FF pro body for

 

[Chris PC]

Is a prime lens a fixed mm non-zoom lens?

How much more improvement would a prime lens provide?

How much inprovement does the prospect of FF CCD have waiting for us? More detail? Less noise?

I assume that if I got a Nikon D80 and either of the 18-70 ED and 70-300 ED VR or the 18-200 ED VR that I could take sharp pictures and print them quite large without much loss in detail? (softness in the 18-200 not-with-standing and taking into consideration that I'll need to learn how to take good pictures with the D80 and lens, including camera settings, actual photo taking and post photo fiddling).

It doesn't look like the D40x is worth-while to me since it's only $200 less than the D80. I am thinking I'm either going to start with a D50 or go straight to the D80.

 

[Chris PC]

...or I could get the D40 and 18-55 AF-S and a 70-300 AF-S ED VR and use the D40 for a while and save up for the D80. I may not find a used D50.

If I can't find a used D50, is the D40 an ok starting point? The D40x is too close in price to the D80.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Canon full frame CMOS sensor cameras provide higher resolution, greater detail, less noise, better high ISO performance and narrower depth of field control than their crop sensor counterparts. This all comes at a much higher cost, though. I would expect similar results if/when Nikon offers FF.

 

[Chris PC]

I am thinking that I'm going to try this:

Used D50 or new D40.

If I get the D40 and must take the kit lens, then I'll try to sell it back. With either of the D40 and D50 depending on whether or not I'm stuck with the kit lens and/or don't sell it, I'll choose from the 18-200 or 70-300 and whatever else I can afford to fill in my sub 70 mm photo requirements. Probably some wide to sub 100 mm zoom.

Would the 18-200 ED VR perform as good as the D40 kit lens over the 18-55 mm range for sharpness and CA?

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Sounds like a plan.

I think if you get the camera w/ the 18-55 kit lens, you should give the lens a good try before selling it off. It would not surprise me at all if the IQ is very comparable to the 18-200 VR -- and the 18-200 VR is kinda hard to come by w/out paying a premium anyway. You'll probably only miss the VR function there -- and I guess build quality is lower on the kit lens. For the tele end, it seems that most everyone feels the 70-300 VR is a good bit better than the 18-200 VR -- and of course, you'll have more reach w/ the extra 100mm. Also, remember that the 70-300 VR is not a DX/APS crop lens, which is an extra plus for future compatibility (w/ FF).

As I hinted before, unless you need the all-in-one aspect of the 18-200 VR, you're probably better off going w/ some other wide-zoom option combined w/ the 70-300 VR. If you want a wide-zoom that can help make up for the missing VR function w/ a larger aperture, then definitely consider something like the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8. If you went w/ the D50, you can also add a prime or two to go w/ the 18-55 when you find the need -- of course, that does mean carrying an extra lens or two (though they are pretty small between ~30mm and 50mm). Even if you went w/ the D40, you can opt for something like the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 to go w/ the kit lens though that's an APS crop prime unlike the current Nikon options. And the Nikon 50 f/1.8 is quite inexpensive -- many get it for that reason.

As for availability of used D50's, seems like eBay has a lot. I see that Cameta even offers a few different lightly used D50 kits that come w/ their own 1-year warranty. And the average used D50 seems to go for anywhere from $300 to $400 on eBay -- and many of them also come w/ the kit lens.

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Would the Nikon kit lens and the 70-300 lens fit and meter on my Nikon FE? I wonder if I could sell my film slr lens, keep my film slr body and use the new lens with that film slr body too. Just until I decide I can sell the FE.

...actually, I think the 70-300 will work on my film slr. I can get that and another lens at least as wide as 28 mm too and use them on both my digital and film slr. Then I can sell my wide and zoom lens that only work on my film slr and save a few bucks on the lens' or bodies I buy and have less stuff, but both film and digital for now. Would that work? Of course, I can't seem to find any non-DX 18-70 Nikor lens.. but perhaps Sigma or other.

What would those lens do on the film slr? Meter? My FE is manual focus only iirc.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Chris,

Unfortunately, I don't think any of those lenses will be useable on your old FE. Although the 70-300 VR is not DX/APS crop, it is a G type Nikkor, which means no aperture ring -- aperture is controlled via command dial on the camera body. If you want a decent/good telezoom that works both on your FE and on a digital body (other than D40/D40x), you'll probably have to look at the old 70-210 f/4 or 80-200 f/2.8 (or the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8). The 70-300 ED (non-VR) should also work, but you're probably better off w/ a used 70-210 f/4 instead. Most of the recently released Nikkors are G type lenses w/out aperture ring.

And generally, you'll need a different wide zoom for 35mm film and (APS crop) digital due to the crop factor. A 28mm lens on 35mm film becomes more like 42mm on a Nikon DX body. Some APS crop wide zooms (like the Nikkor 12-24 f/4) can be useable on FF/35mm film bodies for part of their zoom ranges -- usually starting around ~1.5x the widest focal length. The 18-70 DX is not really useable since it vignettes for its entire range when using FF/35mm -- not sure about the 18-55 kit lens. And of course, that's besides the fact that many of them are also G type lenses.

_Man_

 

[Chris PC]

Not surprised. Ok, so my idea is not really sensible then with the VR lens. I may forget about my film slr for now.

 

[Chris PC]

I hope to have a D50 at my local store to check out soon ...then it's just to decide on what lens to grab.

 

[Chris PC]

What do you folks think of this lens with the D50?

NIKON DX NIKKOR AF 18-135 3.5-5.6G IF-ED

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/sto...tegoryId=11802

Reasonabley good lens to go with?

 

[Chris PC]

Actually, I'm looking at the Nikon 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF AF-S DX Nikkor and the D50 as my DSLR starting point.

 

[brentl]

Hey Chris, I've had my d50 for about 15 months and love it, it will be coming with me to the East coast this summer. The only 2 things I miss are the lack of commander mode for the flash and the ability to add a battery pack/grip extension.

I also bought the 70-300 VR, and I'm pretty impressed so far. Paid $615 with tax at Future Shop when they had a 20% off on a friends and family event a few months ago.

If you are in are anywhere around Newmarket/MArkham Ontario, I'd be willing to lend you the camera for a coupla days.

Brent

P.s. bought my D50 from Ritz camera when they had "shop the states" had a good discount ... Paid $615 to my door in April o6.

 

[Shadow]

Chris,

Since you mentioned Pentax on your original post, and no one has even addressed it, I thought I would chime in to explain why some people, including me, chose Pentax over Canon or Nikon.

Pentax has been making cameras for a long time. They were a little late jumping on the digital bandwagon, and that cost them. Nevertheless, they are making some excellent DSLRs now, including the K10D. Over the years, Pentax has made some of the best lenses ever made, all of them still compatible with the latest cameras. Even now, their "Limited" line of prime lenses are second to none. As far as Zoom lenses go, on the wide angle end of the spectrum, Pentax lenses are hard to beat. Pentax also has excellent midrange zoom lenses, including the new line of weather sealed lenses. All of these are available for much less money than comparable lenses from Canon and Nikon lenses. And, when combined with a camera like the weather sealed K10D they are all image stabilized. However, for Zoom lenses beyond 250 mm Pentax is not strong. But, you can get some very good third party lenses on that range. I personally have a 70-300 mm Tamron Di lens that I love.

Pentax caters to the advanced, savvy amateur. It gives you excellent cameras and even better lenses at a price that the other competitors can't touch. They are slowly filling in the gaps on their long lens lineup, relying on third party vendors for now.

If you don't mind spending a little fortune for Canon or Nikon long image stabilized lenses, by all means, enjoy. Otherwise, I would definitely recommend that you take a closer look at Pentax. Whatever you chose, I hope you enjoy it!

 

[Chris PC]

Thanks for the input and feedback. I thought about the Pentax but I think I'll be going Nikon for now.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Don't know much about the 18-135. But the 18-70 I've told you a good deal already (both the pros and cons). D50 + 18-70 would make a good starting point.

_Man_

 

[Shadow]

No problem. But, one last thing I would recommend, before you pull the trigger, is to try them in your hand first. See how they feel, how much they weigh. Look through the viewfinder (very important). And, ask the camera vendor to let you put a card on it so that you can take a few shots with them. This is usually not a problem. Then, take them home and compare them. Whatever you pick, you will feel much better about it having done this. (And it may end up saving you from the dark side.)

PS: A new Pentax camera has just been announced, you may want to take a look at it too. Great bargain!

 

[Chris PC]

I have no commitment to buy anything yet. I could very well get a differnet lens and even the D80 or a whole other camera like the Pentax before I leave the store. I just had them sent there for me to see and 'probably' buy. They are totally cool with that. I will probably get the D50 and 18-70 to start and perhaps upgrade not long after.

What other lens could you recommend instead of the 18-70 if you think its wavy distortion and vignetting is objectionable?

 

[Shadow]

OK, since Pentax is still a possible option, let me tell you what I would recommend. It sounds to me that you are looking for an inexpensive way to improve your photography to SLR quality level. Pentax is perfect for that. I mean, the definite no brainer option in my mind currently is the Pentax K100D. You can get it with the kit lens for something ridiculously low like $450 or so at Amazon.

The Pentax kit lens is very good, in comparison with the other kit lenses. I have it and get very good results from it. Sometimes it vignets a little at 18 mm (darker corners), but that is easily removed with Photoshop. Just head over to a Pentax forum and see the samples people are getting from it. Nevertheless, it is just a kit lens and you are getting it almost free with the body. If you couple it with something like the 50-200, which has very good image quality (about $200), or the Tamron 70-300 Di (about $150), you will have already more than surpassed anything you could do with "Canon S2/S3/S5 IS". That would be a good starter kit. You could then, as you save a little money, add something like 40 mm pancake prime lens, for a discrete, excellent quality, normal lens (around $250).

Eventually you may become interested in one of the new DA* lenses, or you may want to find out what it is like to shoot with "The Best (Autofocus) Lenses Money Can Buy"*, and go for one of the limiteds.

Also, don't forget that there is a huge arsenal of old (going back to the 60's and 70's), excellent, lenses floating around in ebay and other such places, that are all compatible with current cameras. (There are one or two that aren't, so just read up on them before buying.) Mounted on something like the K100D or the K10D they are all image stabilized. But, be careful, once you get one or two incredible bargains, you may become infected with a common ailment among Pentax users, LBA. Don't say I didn't warn you.

*http://www.luminous-landscape.com/co...02-05-02.shtml