Does SACD really have a future? (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

And to go even beyond what the Average Joe "can hear" is the more important question:

What does the Average Joe care to hear?

I think the majority of evidence points to the fact that the average person DOESN'T CARE too much about music. We are long gone from the days where people would listen to albums from beginning to end and marvel about the artistry and musicianship on display.

Most people now view music as background noise. Why else are vacuous acts like Boy Bands, Britney, Lohan, et al. dominating the airwaves, while solid acts that aren't so "photogenic" are relegated to small indie labels?

Why else are SACD/DVD-A sales just a minute fraction comparedd to MP3 player sales and downloads/rips?

I don't think it can be argued convincingly that the average joe cares about hi-rez music. Back in the day, when there were few forms of entertainment (mainly movies and music), people cared. But now we have infinitely more types of entertainment: movies, music, video games (took in more revenue than box office sales last year), cell phones, PDAs, computers, laptops, reality television, etc. There's too much entertainment competing for a lessening amount of free time that the average person has. People don't have time to care for everything, so we have to choose what we care for. Unfortunately that has meant a movement away from meaningful music for the masses (as evidenced by what we hear on top40 radio and what acts sell megamillions of records).

 

[Marc Colella]

I'm not even sure the average joe can hear a difference in CD and Hirez at all.

A few friends and family members couldn't tell the difference between CD and SACD when I demo'd it.
My gear is more than good enough to show off the advantages (I can hear it most of the time) - but they don't hear it.

To make matters worse (or weird) I've come across people who swear their 320kbps MP3 sounds better than the CD which it was ripped from.
Even Sony/Philips advertised CD as "pefect sound forever". I know it's merely a marketing slogan, but they threw it out there - and now everyone believes it.

Even audiophiles have a tough time hearing the differences. There were many on the AA who thought the Norah Jones SACD was miles better than the CD... then found out that it came from a PCM transfer and not from an analog source - and now state the difference is only considered minor. This has happened a few times with other recordings.
Stereophile couldn't hear the difference between the NJ CD and SACD - yet many on the AA blasted that reviewer.

If audiophiles have a hard time telling the difference with their high-end equipment - what hope is there for the average joe?

 

[Marty M]

I have a number of friends that are as interested in CDs as I am, but aren't necessarily into hirez sound. To them a redbook CD sounds great. No matter how much marketing is put into SACD and DVD-A it will only be a niche market.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Maybe you should play some acoustical music with cymbals like Jazz or sharp drum attacks. That should make it more obvious. The Raven on Chesky will show off Rebecca's voice. I can switch from this CD to the SACD (from analog tape) and the difference is very obvious for my non-audiophile friends and my wife's friends.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

...and I wonder why I no longer post frequently here. :rolleyes

Every audiophile I know can hear the difference and th Norah Jones disc is not a good comparison since it was mastered from a 16/44 tape. Listen to the difference in AKUS: Live and Red Book. Huge difference even if you have no critical listening skills which is the other missing factor in the above comparisons Marc.

 

[Marc Colella]

That's my point... people thought they heard a difference in the disc merely because it was a SACD. It's a perfect example of how people can get fooled into thinking they hear a difference.
Not every audiophile can hear every difference - which tells me that Joe Sixpack will have even more trouble.

And I wouldn't put THAT much trust into a group of people who spend thousands on interconnects and speaker cables and think that shakti stones and other such nonesense make a difference.

 

[Phil_DC]

Here is a real good article on the subject:

Is There a Future for High-Rez?

I love this statement from the article:

 

[Rachael B]

Lee, many folks won't be able to differintiate between Redbook and hi-rez. Then you've folks that maybe could but for the most part just don't want to. These are folks who definitely will roll their eyes at the suggestion that they should compare two purr-fectly good audio discs with pretty covers. Then, there's that small minority of folks, that includes audiophiles and near audiophiles, that give a s**t about formats and advanced sound quality. They hang around the internet alot, generally, bitch and moan alot and post to silly threads like this one.

The bottom line is, Lee, if you wanna administer hi-rez versus Redbook tests to average folks, you'll proably have to hold them at gun point to do it???

"...dat's da fac's jack..." IMO!

 

[Phil A]

I've had non-audiophiles listen and be able to hear the difference on my systems. The problem is that with their system at home and the way they listen it is not a big priority and the differences are much smaller. The avg. person is quite happy to play CDs in their $100 DVD player hooked-up via a digital cable and they certainly don't want to mess with multiple sets of cables.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Well "many" may be true but I doubt in a proper listening environment you would not get a noticeable difference in the minds of music lovers. This is generally not something subtle, particularly if the comparison is fair, ie. the SACD is a DSD recording and the Redbook is from the 16/44 version.

There are listeners who may simply not appreciate or even care for the improvement in quality but who cares? We are not arguing here for anything more than a successful niche format. That is still a great thing. If Best Buy does not carry SACDs in the future, I won't care if can still buy Chesky SACDs direct or find great jazz and classical titles at my local Tower.

There is also an element of education here. I have always believed that the music business in a concerted effort could educate consumers with commercials, demos, etc. to understand the difference just like they can promote HDTV. Where are the surround demos in the movie theater? This is a huge wasted opportunity and movie fans would love to have that than the commercials we see in its place...Saying Joe Sixpack is "happy with 16/44" may not be a fair statement, but saying Joe Sixpack "does not know better" is more likely true.

Of course, in music there really is no Joe Sixpack. He does not exist. There are sub-niches within sub-niches. You may have a college student who does nothing but download but you may also have guys like me who only want the best possible sound of their favorite albums so we can get closer to what happened that magical day in the studio.

In other words, I am fine that some people drive Geo Metros but being able to enjoy the benefits of a sporty Porsche or a luxurious Lexus is a choice I'm glad I have as a consumer.

Hirez is a Porsche and some people appreciate the extra performance.

 

[Phil_DC]

Regardless after reading the article I posted a couple posts above and following this discussion it appears if things do not change we hi-res music lovers are going to have to buy up what we can before the genre vanishes.

 

[EricRWem]

 

[Danny Tse]

Closing in on 2,700 titles at sa-cd.net.

May be able to surpass that number before the year is over.

 

[Martin Rendall]

As soon as hi-rez survival turned towards the need to educate the general public, it was doomed.

Matin.

 

[Steve Winkler]

As a new participant in the Hi-Res audio market, I must agree that the marketing of it is deplorable. Record companies, electronics makers, stores .... barely a whisper that the formats even exist. I only have 10 discs of SACD and/or DVD Audio and I am far from an audiophile but I can sure appreciate the sound difference now after some comparitive listening. One thing on the latest DVD Audio disc I purchased ( Trapeze, from Tom Cochrane )that I thought was a good idea was an explanation of the benefits of the format and a short display of how your speakers should be set up. It wasn't very technical but something like that displayed at a point of purchase would surely help.

I hope both formats survive.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Mike__P]

Went to my big shopping center's Sam Goody's 2 days before Christmas to get a classical SACD as a very last minute gift and save myself a trip to BestBuy through all the traffic on the roads.

None of the salespeople (some typically high-school goofy, some young "executives" who seemed pretty sharp), had ever heard of the high-rez multi-channel concept at all -- they thought I might be talking about a large storage format for MP3's. They had never heard of SACD, they thought DVD-A was DVD. If there was a SACD in the store (or in the country), they were unaware of it.

Another thing that crosses my mind about this whole hi-rez thing (I'm a big fan by the way):

In today's music, it's not clear to me what "high fidelity" means. Today's popular music is produced to an inch of its life, dripping in artificial electronic effects, intentionally introduced "distortion," electronic "fixed" vocals, etc., etc. etc. This is all stuff that exists nowhere naturally on the planet, so whether or not it's "high fidelity" is, basically, irrelevant. You'd never know unless you were in the studio during the recording and could witness the specific shrieking the engineer had in mind.

It seems to me that only a tiny subset of today's music (i.e. acoustic) has any relevance to hi-rez. If you've actually heard a symphony orchestra or jazz group in a club, you can appreciate what it means to simulate that experience in your home, and you can judge how successful the emulation effort is. For everything else (i.e, stuff that tends to show up on MP3's) the high-rez aspect is sorta beside the point -- it's all arbitrary, "artificially generated" sounds for which there's nothing to compare it to anyway.

-- Mike

 

[Chris Tedesco]

Wow, just got back from my local Best Buy...there SACD and DVD A racks are diminishing. They were never big to begin with, but now it's only a very small section. What's worse, it looks like they have pretty much ceased in stocking the racks. Sad day.

 

[Danny Tse]

You should e-mail Best Buy about the situation about your local store. I did that about the complete lack of Elton John/Eric Clapton SACD reissues and Best Buy responded by stocking 2 copies of each title. A small victory. Then a couple of weeks ago, my local Best Buy even stocked the new Herbie Hancock/Chet Baker SACDs....I was almost in tears.

 

[EricRWem]

Danny makes a very good point: It's up to high-rez lovers, who know the product and what it can do...to really become persistent pains in the arses to people that are supposed to sell it, distribute it, and get it out there. Be nags!

Basically...we have to proseltyze and evangelize the Good News about High-rez audio to the masses. Aggressively.

 

[Chris Tedesco]

Thanks for the tip guys. I'm going to write BB and let them know what stores are doing a poor job at stocking.

Went to another one today, same ol' story.