Does Hacking Like This Make Anyone Else Mad? (1 Viewer)

[Morgan Jolley]

I'll definitely pick one up once some more must have(to me) titles are released

And I look at it the same way.

 

[Gary King]

the fact that DirectX 7 is inside it

Nope, on several levels. First, the Xbox's API is a (heavily-redesigned) relative of DirectX8. Second, it is not "inside the Xbox." The API is merely a collection of header files and precompiled libraries that allow developers to call hardware-level functionality without knowing the specifics of the NV2A's (or MCPX's) registers. It's a lot easier for a developer to call IDirect3DDevice8::CreateTexture than it is to poke all of the necessary registers on the NV2A. And third, it isn't the same thing as DirectX8. A lot of extra hardware-specific functionality is exposed, since other chips don't need to be compatible with it.

 

[NickSo]

Hmmm, another console war in the Gaming Hardware forum :rolleyes

 

[Dave F]

Quote:

Whoa, I almost got whiplash on that 180º spin.
Lol, this is just absurd. This thread should get archived for humor value.
-Dave

 

[Romier S]

So let's make a deal

Yes lets never discuss this again.

 

[Dean DeMass]

Sometimes, I don't even know why I bother. But reading these posts is like a bad car accident. You dont want to look, but you just cant help yourself.
For the record, anyone who thinks that the X-box, PS2, Gamecube, Dreamcast, Nintendo, or any other system isn't a real video game console, needs to check their fanboy status at the door. It doesn't matter what people think about this comment. Because frankly, I don't care.
-Dean-

 

[Michael St. Clair]

The N64, Saturn, Dreamcast, and Gamecube all include either numeric or graphical processors that were derived from hardware that is also used in PCs. The Dreamcast used a very PC-like architecture. And console developers (not PC developers) praised that architecture as being both powerful and easy to develop for. Many developers privately trash the obscure, arcane designs of boxes like the Jaguar, Saturn, and PS2.
The Gamecube runs OpenGL, which for several years was a more popular PC graphical interface than Direct3D/DirectX.
There are many PC ports on the PS2. And there are many XBox games (like those from Sega) that would never be mistaken for a PC game.
The desperate, circular logic used in this thread by the bashers make their biases quite apparent. Why not just admit that you hate Microsoft for other reasons, instead of trying to construct some contrived rationale against its game console?
ps I own all 3 systems.

 

[Javier_Huerta]

The Genesis / Megadrive used a Motorola 68000 processor. If I remember correctly, either the Amiga or the Mac used it as its main chip. And didn't the Saturn used a 68000 processor as one of its secondary chips, too?

Michael, I agree with you 100%. All I see about the Xbox is a terrific console at an incredible (yes, incredible) price point, and all arguments against it so far have been Microsoft is "trying to dominate the market", etc. Funnily enough, I *think* every company tries to dominate the market; those who don't or can't are doomed to oblivion.

 

[JoshF]

There are many PC ports on the PS2. And there are many XBox games (like those from Sega) that would never be mistaken for a PC game.

The desperate, circular logic used in this thread by the bashers make their biases quite apparent. Why not just admit that you hate Microsoft for other reasons, instead of trying to construct some contrived rationale against its game console?

Agreed, but please understand one thing:

To me, hardware has a certain "feel," if you will. Hondas feel like Hondas when you drive them, and Chevy's feel like Chevy's. They're both cars, but they drive different.

Likewise, I feel that hardware drives differently. Despite the OS, Macs (PowerPC machines) and PCs (Intel machines) feel different.

To me, the Xbox FEELS like a PC. It feels like an Intel machine.

I simply don't like the way it drives. It feels like a PC playing PC games. Yes, I agree that it is a console. Let's not go there.

Does that make a bit more sense?

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I always tell people that european cars feel different from japanese cars, which feel different from american cars. The Miata, though, feels awfully european. Then again, the design goal was to capture the feel of the classic european roadsters like the MGB and Lotus. I'd say they succeeded. Less oil in the driveway, too.

I simply don't like the way it drives. It feels like a PC playing PC games. Yes, I agree that it is a console. Let's not go there.
Does that make a bit more sense?

Not to me. F1 2002 is the exact same damned game whether you play it on a PS2 or an XBox (as long as the latter uses an interlaced display and a PS2 controller via adaptor). Ubi Soft games feel the same no matter what system you play them on. Jet Set Radio and Panzer Dragoon aren't going to feel any different if Sega ports them to the Gamecube.
Consoles aren't like PCs in that the user interface of the operating system does not intrude into the user interface of the game. Classically, console games take control of the whole system, and functionally, they still do to this day (even if a service or two still runs concurrent with the app).
Come on, you admit that you have this huge anti-Microsoft bias that obviously predates the XBox, but you can't come up with a single way to quantify how an game feels different when the code runs on an XBox instead of another system?
Sorry, I can't buy that.
How a console game feels (other than the physical controller) has everything to do with the developer of the game, not with the game hardware. I can buy the argument that no XBox (or PS2) game is going to feel like a first-party Nintendo game (though Rare may come close to aping that), but that is not the same thing as saying that no XBox game will feel like a console game.
For reference, I've been gaming for over 25 years, and here are my systems:
Asteroids arcade game
Atari 2600
Atari 5200
Atari Jaguar
Atari Jaguar CD
Atari Lynx
Atari XEGS
Various Atari Computers (like 800XL, ST, Falcon)
Colecovision
Game.com
Gameboy Advance
Gameboy Color
Gameboy Light (backlit pocket from Japan)
Gamecube
Genesis
Neo Geo CD
Neo Geo Pocket Color
N64
NES
Playstation
Playstation 2
Pong
Samsung Nuon DVD
Sega 32X
Sega CD
Sega CDX
Sega Dreamcast
Sega Nomad
Sega Saturn
SNES
Tempest arcade game
Turbo Duo-RX
Turbo Express
Vectrex
Xbox

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Quote:

I have no reason to hate MS. I have a Windows computer running Internet Explorer, I have MSN Messenger (among other IM programs), and I play Rainbow 6 on MSN Zone. The only problems I see with them that bug me (I could care less about business practices) have to do with the X-Box in a few areas, such as some of their marketing techniques and the lack of good games (that I consider good). The X-Box is a console, but the way MS went about making/marketing it and the games on it make it feel less like a console than the PS2/GCN. That's pretty much the thing I've been saying all along. It's one of those things you can't really argue (it's an opinion).

 

[Aaron Copeland]

To be truthful, it comes down to a combination of marketing and perception. MS built their console like a PC and marketed it at such.

I don't really think that is accurate at all. How has MS marketed the XBOX as PC? They have actively tried to avoid that image. Hence their reluctance to use a keyboard and mouse on the system. Look at this link: XBOX.com
They mention Intel and NVIDIA, but do not specifically mention Pentium or GeForce.
Now look at this link:
Nintendo.com
They mention "IBM Power PC" and ATI. Two names also associated with PCs.
So in what way do you think MS has tried to market the XBOX as a PC?
Also, you guys talking about "feel", it's all in your head. Chips don't impart any feel to game code, but since you know the XBOX uses derivatives of well known PC chips, you have created an imaginary feel in your mind. You're basically claiming you can feel the Intel and NVIDIA parts. So let me ask you this, if you went to an unmarked PC and started a PC game, would you be able to "feel" if the PC was using an Intel processor or an AMD processor? Would be able to feel if there was an ATI or NIVDIA graphics chip set in use? Could you feel any combination of the two? Of course not. So why would you be able to feel them in a console?

 

[Morgan Jolley]

So why would you be able to feel them in a console?

Not physically, no. It's more of the aura around the console, including hype, marketing, company history, how it looks, etc. that gives it a certain feeling.

I don't want to use caps, but I need to...

I NEVER SAID THE X-BOX WAS NOT A CONSOLE, BECAUSE I KNOW IT IS. IT'S MY OPINION AS TO HOW I THINK IT FEELS. IF YOU WANT ME TO STOP CRAPPING ON YOUR CONSOLE, which I'm not, THEN STOP TRYING TO PROVE MY OPINIONS WRONG.

I'm really sorry to everyone, but I had to do that.

 

[Javier_Huerta]

Nintendo has turned it from a modified PC chip to a "special" console chip. It sounds dumb, but THAT is what makes it feel like a console and not a PC. MS constantly says that they have a Pentium II in the X-Box

It's actually a Pentium III, not a Pentium II. Which kinda proves your point, since I don't know a lot about videogames, yet I do know the Xbox uses a 733 MHz chip

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Not physically, no. It's more of the aura around the console, including hype, marketing, company history, how it looks, etc. that gives it a certain feeling.

Aura? AURA???!!! Marketing reps must love you guys.
I now know the problem is with certain users who are thinking about things (some real, some imaginary) other than the game they are playing. Me, I just think about the game. I cannot help you.

 

[Gary King]

Morgan,

You've clearly never developed with DirectX and you certainly haven't done any development on the Xbox, so your opinions on how PC-like it is don't have a whole lot of merit. The development environment is similar to DirectX8, but make no mistake that the Xbox DirectX SDK is in every way a console development kit. Many tricks that developers have devised for Xbox graphics are impossible to perform on the PC.

company history

At last the truth comes out... Microsoft was a PC company, and you felt violated when they "invaded" the console space. Could you just leave it at that, rather than continuously make long, incorrect, circuitous, contradicting, vague arguments about everything Xbox related?

 

[Romier S]

or are there special circumstances that make the Xbox marketing and technology somehow worse?

Yes Gary, it doesn't have a super spiffy name or an "Aura".:rolleyes

 

[Rob_Pierce]

OK, OK. I started this post...how do I end it?

 

[Rob_Pierce]

OK, OK. I started this thread...how do I end it?

 

[Romier S]

OK, OK. I started this thread...how do I end it?

Click your heels three times and say "Theres no place like home".
Dr Mario prescribes a healthy dose of gaming across all platforms (wow you mean some folks play games on these little PC's!) to alleviate the nonsense.

Perhaps its time to take his advice.