Do studios duplicate/replicate their Blu-rays in house or do they use a separate company? (1 Viewer)

[Paul_Warren]

Amazed Indiana Jones sold 122000 copies in US alone generating $5.163m imagine the worldwide outside US figures way higher for all these titles

 

[jcroy]

I just think it's a really sad day when some of these films can't even sell 10,000 copies each, they struggle at selling a few thousand, there has to be some way to improve that, there has to be a way of marketing them or some sort of incentives they can offer to increase the sales

What kind of incentives would convince people to become new customers? (ie. Besides giving them away for free).

 

[FoxyMulder]

(As an aside).

Sounds sorta like the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

That study was done on American's note how it's the opposite for Asia and probably different for Europe too, so i am immune from said criticism. All the same it's an interesting read and apparently real knowledge is to know one's ignorance, heavy and deep, then i guess i have gained knowledge today because i do feel ignorant on this subject matter, i just want catalog to sell better.

What kind of incentives would convince people to become new customers? (ie. Besides giving them away for free).

If i knew that i would be employed in the marketing department, i was just asking because i am frustrated at the lack of sales for catalog titles and i am venting today, i am sure they have tried a number of things and licensing the titles out is the best option for now. I just wish there was another way to generate sales for these movies as it would benefit us all.

Perhaps they need to make new trailers for these older movies, trailers designed for the modern age which might encourage some sales, put the trailers on new releases, jazz them up a bit, throw in a date with the latest super model, free popcorn, original poster artwork and not some of this cheaply produced photoshop work, lower price points, 2 for 1 sales, don't know really.

Maybe it's just impossible to sell some, i would have thought there was a good proportion of older people who would exercise their buying power to buy catalog, it makes me think maybe many are happy with dvd and think blu ray doesn't benefit older titles, that's where the studio, if they care, has to get the message across that older titles can benefit from blu ray.

 

[jcroy]

That study was done on American's note how it's the opposite for Asia and probably different for Europe too, so i am immune from said criticism.

Touche.

 

[jcroy]

Maybe it's just impossible to sell some, i would have thought there was a good proportion of older people who would exercise their buying power to buy catalog, it makes me think maybe many are happy with dvd and think blu ray doesn't benefit older titles, that's where the studio, if they care, has to get the message across that older titles can benefit from blu ray.

Even worse are the ones who stuck with VHS and never moved on to dvd (or bluray).

My father was one of those types, where he was still using the VHS machine until a few years ago.

The only reason my father buys any blurays, is because I purchased a bluray player for him. (Though he asks me to pick up various older movies for him).

 

[Douglas R]

Now, this is a generalization so there are definitely exceptions to the opinions I'm about to express here. First off, I'm speaking from the American POV which might be quite different than other parts of the world as I always suspected classic films are more popular among the younger demographic in those locations than they are here in America. I think the younger demographic here never really appreciated B&W films nor movies not filmed in widescreen. During this video age, I'd had numerous conversations with much younger people than I about films and I constantly hear the same kind of apathy towards those kind of films. I feel the same type of disinterest to those younger people that like westerns or war films for example, but refuse to watch such films made beyond the 1960's or even 1970's in some cases.

I don't think there's any difference amongst younger demographics in the UK because my experience is also that young people here have zero interest in anything other than modern films. When I was amongst numerous young family members last Christmas, a collective groan went up as the TV announcer said BEN-HUR would be on next and they quickly switched the channel! I'm sure that an interest in classic films has always been a minority interest - and that applies to most adults as well. Loking at those sales figures I'd say we are lucky to get any classic titles on Blu-ray at all.

 

[SeanAx]

Do you remember the first few years when widescreen TVs become affordable to almost every household and a lot of folks bought their first sets? I can't speak to your experience, but I constantly would walk into the homes of friends and sometimes family and notice that old Academy ratio TV shows were stretched to fit the widescreen. I would point this out and they never even noticed and in some cases preferred to simply fill the frame even if it was wrong.

If so many people don't care about easily discernible distortions to familiar programs, then why would they care about the difference between a streaming image and a disc?

That's not everyone, of course, but we who care very much about quality are a minority and possibly not one big enough to sustain the kinds of sales necessary to sustain a business bigger than what we now enjoy.

 

[Charles Smith]

Well said. Those have certainly been my observations in the homes of many friends. It's unbelievable and, in the scheme of things, depressing.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

I remember years ago when my mom still had a 4x3 set she was playing back a copy of Sixth Sense on DVD that looked awful. Everything was stretched out. I found that it was set for a 16x9 TV in the DVD player. I fixed it and instead of saying it looked better (which it did), she said it looked worse because of the black bars! She would rather look at a distorted picture than the $(&-? Black bars.As a side note if studios thought they could better market their catalog titles, they would be trying. They have been burned too many times.

 

[schan1269]

All the more reason catalog titles should be relegated to one market(maybe two) and made region free.Umpteenth time I have said Germany and Brazil shoud be the physical disc stalwarts.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I remember years ago when my mom still had a 4x3 set she was playing back a copy of Sixth Sense on DVD that looked awful. Everything was stretched out. I found that it was set for a 16x9 TV in the DVD player. I fixed it and instead of saying it looked better (which it did), she said it looked worse because of the black bars! She would rather look at a distorted picture than the $(&-? Black bars.

Same thing with my dad. He used to tease me about liking movies letterboxed, I remember back in the day when cable channels first started showing movies in widescreen and we still had a 4x3 TV, he'd channel surf and land upon some awful movie, and tease, "Hey Josh, it's in widescreen, that means it's better, right?"

Recently something happened that I never would have imagined. I got my mom a few Blu-ray discs for Christmas, a couple Twilight Time titles, "Oliver!" and "Sleepless In Seattle", two of her favorite movies, as well as a few more mass-produced discs like the "Planet of the Apes" box set. A couple months after giving them to her, she wound up with a touch of flu and had to spend a week on the couch, and watched every disc. Next time we spoke, she told me how amazed she was at the quality of the Blu-rays. She's watching on a small screen, maybe 35" or 40". Some of these movies she's known her whole life, and she's had them before on VHS and/or DVD. I had given her Blu-rays before this year, but this was the first time that she had ever really noticed and said something.

So I think that people can notice the difference, even people who you wouldn't necessarily expect to. On the other hand, for a lot of people, there is such a thing as "good enough" and for a lot of people, the DVD they already own is good enough. I can't fault people for not wanting to spend $20 on another copy of a movie they already had and probably bought in the past 5-10 years. I've re-bought more titles on Blu than I ever expected I would, and having done that, I can see how many people might make the opposite choice.

I wonder how many old books are readily available and still in print, going back over the past hundred or so years (about as long as movies have been going on)? I'd guess it's probably the same, that the universally recognized masterpieces are still in print and popular, but that there's also a lot of stuff that's been forgotten or fallen out of the mainstream.

 

[classicmovieguy]

Do you remember the first few years when widescreen TVs become affordable to almost every household and a lot of folks bought their first sets? I can't speak to your experience, but I constantly would walk into the homes of friends and sometimes family and notice that old Academy ratio TV shows were stretched to fit the widescreen. I would point this out and they never even noticed and in some cases preferred to simply fill the frame even if it was wrong.

If so many people don't care about easily discernible distortions to familiar programs, then why would they care about the difference between a streaming image and a disc?

That's not everyone, of course, but we who care very much about quality are a minority and possibly not one big enough to sustain the kinds of sales necessary to sustain a business bigger than what we now enjoy.

My father is still complaining how he "spent $$$ on a big screen TV so why is the picture almost always never filled up?". I've tried explaining the various ratios (4:3, 1:85 etc) but he is still very annoyed when a widescreen film still has black bars. Me, I've never minded in the least.

 

[OliverK]

First off I agree with what others have said and that it is unlikely that studios are only working with imbeciles who do not know how to market titles in general but I am not always so sure that the studios have the right types of marketing people for all of their movies. By that I mean that those who are bringing forward the X-Men series may not be the same who can turn around the catalog business and with limited financial rewards there is a tendency to concentrate on the big hitters. Also, there is a mindset or even mantra that says catalog doesn't sell that I am not so sure what is actually still done to try and improve upon deeper catalog sales as there seems to be a selflimiting belief that no matter what is done it doesn't work anyway. Then why does Criterion sell many obscure titles that most studios would never dream to release? Part of it is certainly that they have a different market that they are serving but then they created it themselves and nobody prevents the studios from also being a bit more creative in that regard.There are other indications that more could be done with relatively obscure titles and they do also come from smaller companies in Europe. Especially Germany, France and the UK seem to put out many older titles that did not get a release in the US. Now I have a hard time believing that for example The Tall Men, a 50ies US western from Fox, will be more profitable being released in Germany than in the US and there are numerous other examples.So there seems to be a market for more titles to be sold and I would like to add an idea of a marketing strategy that may also help to a degree: If possible try to make it into some kind of series where something gets released monthly, bimonthly or even quarterly and try to target returning customers as well as rely on word of mouth that there is this series of releases and at some point at least a few people will just be collecting regardless of the movies. Criterion and Twilight Time partly do well because of people who want every title or at least they are inclined to get a title just because it is TT or Criterion. And why not have a Warner western classics series or the bimonthly Fox epic , John Wayne release, the roaring 20ies or whatever. It is but one idea but one that I found in many areas to hold some success as the individual title can have success in a larger context and not only by virtue of itself. Of course it usually helps to start such a thing off with a more popular title and this is where it is sometimes getting difficult as it is easier to start a series of historical epics with Ben-Hur than with The Silver Chalice for example but it may work as part of a series of Paul Newman movies Still that is a thought that I do not see studios following very often when Criterion and TT imo owe some of their success to the idea and concept of one title being part of something bigger.It is very often said that first Criterion and now TT are special but who would have thought that there was a place for TT besides Criterion before TT started with their releases? Instead of finding reasons why catalog titles cannot sell I would at least advise every studio to have a closer look at every company in the US and other countries that does make catalog work and also at what doesn't work (evidence should be plentiful given the current mindest) and then look again at what they are doing themselves and if nothing else allow for more third parties to get involved in all the stages of marketing their catalog if they see no other option. And let's not forget that even among the film studios the rate of releasing classics is vastly different - does that indicate that some studios only have stinkers they cannot dare to release and the others have all the good titles or is it also the different approach they are taking? I do now see Warner being the leader again with both their normal releases and the Warner archive collection that are from what I can see even presented in excellent quality, but how many are there per year given their huge catalog?OK, off my soap box now but it pains me to see how very often the subject of catalog is approached with timidity instead of boldness especially when the financial risks for many of those releases is really limited compared to the multi million dollar risks that the studios are taking with new theatrical releases.

 

[Persianimmortal]

I really don't see this as a marketing issue. A lot of people I know just aren't interested in classic movies, even when forced to watch them. They giggle at the dialog, laugh at outdated special effects, and get bored if more than 5 minutes goes by without a car chase scene or gunfight. No amount or type of marketing is going to get these people to buy these older movies on Blu. It simply boils down to a matter of taste, or dare I say, a lack thereof. And for those people who do enjoy classic cinema, the vast majority seem more than happy with the DVD version. It's a relatively straightforward if somewhat inconvenient truth that classics on BD will not sell well.

 

[TravisR]

^ I don't like it but I agree.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I really don't see this as a marketing issue. A lot of people I know just aren't interested in classic movies, even when forced to watch them. They giggle at the dialog, laugh at outdated special effects, and get bored if more than 5 minutes goes by without a car chase scene or gunfight. No amount or type of marketing is going to get these people to buy these older movies on Blu. It simply boils down to a matter of taste, or dare I say, a lack thereof. And for those people who do enjoy classic cinema, the vast majority seem more than happy with the DVD version. It's a relatively straightforward if somewhat inconvenient truth that classics on BD will not sell well.

I've been saying that forever, but some around here don't see it as they keep trying to place the blame on the studios instead of circumstances outside their control. We always have to have somebody to blame, when we see failure, even though there isn't one individual to blame for that failure.

 

[OliverK]

I really don't see this as a marketing issue. A lot of people I know just aren't interested in classic movies, even when forced to watch them. They giggle at the dialog, laugh at outdated special effects, and get bored if more than 5 minutes goes by without a car chase scene or gunfight. No amount or type of marketing is going to get these people to buy these older movies on Blu. It simply boils down to a matter of taste, or dare I say, a lack thereof. And for those people who do enjoy classic cinema, the vast majority seem more than happy with the DVD version. It's a relatively straightforward if somewhat inconvenient truth that classics on BD will not sell well.

If they sell well enough to make a release feasible then this is all we need.The problem is that if it doesn't have the potential to make big money there seems to be little interest from certain parties.Luckily TT saw a potential market where others (including many studio people) didn't. It seems that Nick Redman did not read some of the threads over here and in other places attentively enough as otherwise he would not have started with the futile endeavour of releasing catalog titles on Blu-ray

 

[jcroy]

OK, off my soap box now but it pains me to see how very often the subject of catalog is approached with timidity instead of boldness especially when the financial risks for many of those releases is really limited compared to the multi million dollar risks that the studios are taking with new theatrical releases.

Another question to ask is whether the corporate division handling the new first-run movies is autonomous or completely independent from the division handling the home video dvd/bluray/streaming releases.

If these divisions are run relatively autonomously (like corporate "fiefdoms"), then I would guess stuff like the year-end-bonuses and firings/layoffs are also handled relatively autonomously or entirely independent from one another. If a particular divison isn't doing so well financially, do the c-level suite corporate higher-ups come down on that particular division's bosses like a ton of bricks?

I would guess the division "fiefdom" bosses do quite a bit to cover their own asses when it comes to anything they have direct oversight on, or else they might not see any year-end-bonuses or future promotions.

 

[Sumnernor]

I am late 70 but am not the least bothered by "black-bars". I feel that much of the public is DUMB. While I live in Germany , I am not typical Germany or American but am educated retired programmer.

 

[Kyrsten Brad]

Sales figures for Blu-Ray in 2014 :-

http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2014

Judging by the numbers for The Jungle Book and in relation to DNR (as TJB was pretty well DNR'd), looks like about 719,000 folks actually liked the DNR in the movie.

The other 227 probably subscribe to this forum.

A depressing thought for those who dislike excessive DNR done on catalog titles, particularly Disney titles.