Direct from Hollywood: Widescreen DVD releases under the gun! Here's the Answer! (1 Viewer)

[Nate Anderson]

Why do I feel like I'm about to scream? Oh yeah, P&S only DVDs.
Well, on the bright side, if this happens, I might actually be able to save my money...imagine that.
As long as they put out a widescreen edition on everything as well, I really don't care. J6P is the one who's going to get burned here...
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"This is not a drill. This is the apocolypse!"

 

[Reginald Trent]

Seems the forum may have used a flawed strategy regarding DVD. I recall a former member suggesting that both versions should be on the DVD. His suggestion was frown on and brough the wrath of other members on him. Most didn't want a fullscreen version offered even if a widescreen version was guaranteed. Had HTF advocated both versions on DVD would we have these concerns now? Who knows but we definately have them now.
As for me no OAR, no sale.

 

[Gary Kellerman]

The first thing that should have occurred once it was established that 16X9 would be the chosen home wide screen format was to stop photography on films in the 2:35 or 2:40 format and shoot only in the widescreen Academy Flat 1:85(or it might be 1:78)standard. At least when a film is transferred in the latter format on a DVD, the black bars are easy to get used to in an ananmorphic downconversion format for those who own standard 1:33 to 1 tv sets, regardless of the screen size.
I am and perhaps others are not planning on a new widescreen tv set purchase within the next few years. However, it would be unfair to not release widescreen versions of DVDs to those that have bought and do plan to buy widescreen sets. The biggest use that I see with widescreen sets would be with the owners of DVD players, more so than widescreen broadcasts at this time and for that matter in the future as well.
Even with a tutorial as to why it is better to have the widescreen version, psychologically, I think many consumers out there want their screens completely filled with a picture. The DVD format can forfill that, but I do not think retailers really want two sets of discs sitting on their shelves(this almost sounds like the VHS-BETA war).
It boils down to this. The priority of a DVD is to present the best picture and sound possible of the titled product. Either the industry produces the two types of ratios on a "flipper" disc or offers a two disc set with one in P&S and the other in anamorphic W/S(the latter two disc set I personally think is better). The so called "extras" that would be on these discs would be determined by the amount of space available on the discs left for the "extras". This way, the dealer has one box to sell to the so called J6P and the Videophile at the same time.

 

[Reginald Trent]

Seems the forum may have used a flawed strategy regarding DVD. I recall a former member suggesting that both versions should be on the DVD. His suggestion was frown on and brough the wrath of other members on him. Most didn't want a fullscreen version offered even if a widescreen version was guaranteed. Had HTF advocated both versions on DVD would we have these concerns now? Who knows but we definately have them now. Is it too late to rethink strategy, do we even want to?
As for me no OAR, no sale.

 

[Matt_Stevens]

We all knew this was coming. Some said I was nuts for being so outspoken about, but here we go.
Four things absolutely need to happen or all hope is lost:
#1. All film under 2 hours MUST be released on one Duel Sided DVD. One side Pan & Scan. The other side Widescreen. Screw the extras. OAR is most important and this pleases everyone.
#2. All Pan & Scan release need a "Why Letterbox" feature, similar to the one on DIE HARD. This is a no brainer and I cannot understand why studios get this.
#3. TV MANUFACTURERS need to be forced into making more 16x9 TV's. ALL HDTV's should be 16x9 by the end of 2002 and that includes Tubes! Why should we be any different from Europe?
#4. We need to contact major filmmakers and get them to speak up about this.
Not doing all of the above means we will fail and within two years, we will NOT see widescreen DVD. It will simply end. We need to get over our obsession with extras, period. This is a critical time and if we lose the ability to buy or rent widescreen material, the extras won't mean jack shit.
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[Dwayne]

Educating the public about widescreen is certainly necessary. But it may be a bit more complex than one initially thinks. The differences between scope and pan and scan are obvious. But what about films that are 1:85 or 1:66? That's where you start getting into the history of aspect ratios and shot composition. These would need to be covered as well. For example:
You show J6P the differences using TPM as your demo material, and he'll clearly see that with pan and scan, there are things being cut out of the picture (not to mention the horrible, manufactured movements within the frame). But later on, he makes a comparison between a widescreen and a full-frame presentation of a feature, and sees that image information is being cut out of the widescreen version.
Point being, if the studios are going to educate the public about widescreen, then they need to cover everything.
With that said, I will not buy anything but OAR.
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-Dwayne

 

[Captain Spaulding]

I think this is all a plot by the $tudio$. They'll eventually say that they can only afford to produce OAR DVD's if they charge a premium price for them. That way, they'll sell P&S to the masses and higher priced OAR discs to us, thus making even more $ than they are now!

 

[Captain Spaulding]

I think this is all a plot by the $tudio$. They'll eventually say that they can only afford to produce OAR DVD's if they charge a premium price for them. That way, they'll sell P&S to the masses and higher priced OAR discs to us, thus making even more $ than they are now!

 

[Brad Cook]

Have the studios ever bothered to find out what people want? They do a million focus tests when they're marketing their theatrical releases. Have they done any homework to find out what people want?
They need to get people out into shopping malls and other high-traffic areas and ask random passers-by if they'd like to participate in a study. Show them part of a film (like Star Wars, or TPM; something in 2.35:1 and popular will work) in widescreen, then show them the same thing in P&S. Ask them which one they prefer, and why.
Then explain why the black bars are there, and what happens when a film is P&S'd. Ask them again which one they prefer. Note everything the person says.
Repeat this until they have a large enough sample of the population that they can figure out what's going through the head of an "everyday person." Do they immediately balk at widescreen? Do they change their minds after being told what the bars are there for?
If, in the end, the studios discover that people simply don't want widescreen, even after being educated, then I can live with dual releases, or having both versions on the same disc (even if it has to be a 2-disc set, like the Mask of Zorro SE). I won't tolerate the end of widescreen, though, and I hope the studios will realize that dumping widescreen completely will hurt them. They gave in with Willy Wonka; I'm sure they won't go for wholesale abandonment of widescreen.
While the tyrant in me would prefer to just say "You'll take widescreen and you'll like it!" I realize that, this being a capitalist country and all, the unwashed masses rule, even when they're uninformed. Look at how few of them bother to vote, and how uninformed they seem to be when they actually get out to do it.
- Brad

 

[Reginald Trent]

Seems the forum may have used a flawed strategy regarding DVD. I recall a former member suggesting that both versions should be on the DVD. His suggestion was frown on and brough the wrath of other members on him. Most didn't want a fullscreen version offered even if a widescreen version was guaranteed. Had HTF advocated both versions on DVD would we have these concerns now? Who knows but we definately have them now. Is it too late to rethink strategy, do we even want to?
As for me no OAR, no sale.

 

[Brad Cook]

Have the studios ever bothered to find out what people want? They do a million focus tests when they're marketing their theatrical releases. Have they done any homework to find out what people want?
They need to get people out into shopping malls and other high-traffic areas and ask random passers-by if they'd like to participate in a study. Show them part of a film (like Star Wars, or TPM; something in 2.35:1 and popular will work) in widescreen, then show them the same thing in P&S. Ask them which one they prefer, and why.
Then explain why the black bars are there, and what happens when a film is P&S'd. Ask them again which one they prefer. Note everything the person says.
Repeat this until they have a large enough sample of the population that they can figure out what's going through the head of an "everyday person." Do they immediately balk at widescreen? Do they change their minds after being told what the bars are there for?
If, in the end, the studios discover that people simply don't want widescreen, even after being educated, then I can live with dual releases, or having both versions on the same disc (even if it has to be a 2-disc set, like the Mask of Zorro SE). I won't tolerate the end of widescreen, though, and I hope the studios will realize that dumping widescreen completely will hurt them. They gave in with Willy Wonka; I'm sure they won't go for wholesale abandonment of widescreen.
While the tyrant in me would prefer to just say "You'll take widescreen and you'll like it!" I realize that, this being a capitalist country and all, the unwashed masses rule, even when they're uninformed. Look at how few of them bother to vote, and how uninformed they seem to be when they actually get out to do it.
- Brad

 

[Reginald Trent]

Seems the forum may have used a flawed strategy regarding DVD. I recall a former member suggesting that both versions should be on the DVD. His suggestion was frowned on and brough the wrath of other members. Most didn't want a fullscreen version offered even if a widescreen version was guaranteed. Had HTF advocated both versions on DVD would we have these concerns now? Who knows but we definately have them now.
As for me no OAR, no sale.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

I think this is all a plot by the $tudio$. They'll eventually say that they can only afford to produce OAR DVD's if they charge a premium price for them. That way, they'll sell P&S to the masses and higher priced OAR discs to us, thus making even more $ than they are now!

 

[Charles J P]

Well, not to stir the poop as the saying goes, but here goes any way. I totally 1000% agree that pan&scan is bad, but I also 1000% agree with the comments about laying off the J6Pack comments that make it sound like if you don't like OAR you are a low IQ hillbilly POS.
Keep in mind that all of you that drive automatic transmission cars are J6Packs to car enthusiasts who "know" that all real cars have a stick shift... or that all the people here who just check e-mail and surf the forum are all J6Packs to me (a computer enthusiast) who runs a web server, an FTP server, and a proxy server on my home computer.
Yeah, the kind of people who would make this kind of comparison are obviously enthusiasts in their respective hobby, but so are people who say OAR or die. Please don't blast people like my parents who like DVDs, but will buy which ever version is on the shelf. I know the policy of this forum is not to defend P&S, and I'm not. I'm defending the people who I know and like and that there is nothing "wrong" with that could care less. Yeah, it sucks that other people will ruin what we had going for DVD, but (to go back to my analogy) all the people who kept buying automatic transmission in American V6 sedans "ruined it" for me so that I can no longer find an American 4-door with a V6 and a stick. The sad truth is that the 90% of people who you call Joe 6pack represent lot more money than us. I fear we are fighting a losing battle, but there is an old saying that says if you are not part of the solution, your part of the problem.
People in this thread who are coming up with ideas that might actually help, I applaud you. People here who are just saying f**( J6Pack, are not really helping. I know this seems like a rant, and I know it seems like I am breaking my own rule, but the bashing has got to stop.
I think the only thing that will make widescreen triumph will be the eventual adoption of widescreen TVs, but even then, I fear cropping to fit all films to that aspect ratio. There have been some pretty cruel comments towards the "uneducated" Joe6Packs, if not in this thread than in others, that don't really help and just portray an elitist attitude to outsiders who might read them.
I don't know what the answer is, but I know that calling people who disagree with you, "dumb" is not it.
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[Seth Paxton]

Why should we expect anything different than LD had?
There were plenty of P&S LDs, it's just that there were ALSO plenty of OAR LDs as well. That's the direction DVD is going.
But for classic films, how many people BUYING Godfather, M*A*S*H, Ben-Hur, etc. want them to be P&S?? New releases are a totally different ballgame, and studios have already shown that they have no problem marketing the hell out of those. Think about things like The Mummy or American Pie, studio's have no problem putting out BOTH on those titles.
We won't like that P&S exists, but it's nothing new. If anything, DVD has gotten A LOT MORE OAR into people's homes.
The real battle front is the HDTV area and the W/S sets that go with them. But in that area keep this in mind, there are tons of W/S sets on the way out or already out, and when a mainstream company like RCA puts out a 4:3 with squeeze mode on it, that says something about where the market is headed.
Yes, we are feeling the pull of Joe6 entering the marketplace. But even as he enters, the market is shifting right in front of him, 2 ships passing in the night.
As for a demo, I think the best demo would be to close the curtains at a movie theater to the 4:3 ratio and tell the crowd to watch the film the same way they will want to see it at home. I'm sure that would go over splendidly.

 

[MaxY]

Oh Just incase any Studio Execs are reading this...
I have 1300+ DVDs!!!
I WILL NOT buy anything but Widescreen.
If this happens I will have to find a new way to spend all my disposable income.
Max
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[Tom J. Davis]

I knew this day would come. I think OAR will always be an option but maybe not on dvd. Think back when all of us OAR advicates were forced to pay $40-$50 for a laserdisc just to get OAR and digital sound. I fear something like this may happen sooner than we think.
As far as educating the public. I know people that have dvd players and know the difference between OAR and P&S, but they just don't give a damn. A friend of mine has a Toshiba DVD player and a 27" tv. He called me up one day to ask if Jurrasic park was one of those real wide movies or just kinda wide. "If it's real wide I ain't buying it he says, makes the picture to small." What more could I say?

 

[HalS]

NBC is showing some letterboxed dramas

Every NBC drama I've seen this year (which I admit is not the entire schedule) has been widescreen. That includes ER, The West Wing, and the biggest surprise for me, Crossing Jordan.
The bottom line is last year NBC decided to experiment with ER. It was going to be a short term experiment and they expected to get complaints. They got basically none. And now we see much more proliferation of widescreen programming as a result.
As far as the aspect problem that those shows are 16X9 and the concern that 2.35 will wind up cropped, that is another issue. And one that I am not concerned about for DVD, though I admit it's probably more of a concern from the broadcast side.
The networks are making a major committment to widescreen, I don't see that trend being reversed. In fact, it's going so much quicker than I expected, I imagine it won't be long before it's the norm for dramas to be widescreen.
With that in mind, DVD is never going to lose widescreen presentations. It's not possible, it's too entrenched.
Now does that mean we won't see more dual format discs or more cases with separate disc for WS and P&S? We probably will see more of those things. But I'm not going to waste a second of my time worrying about that. As long as widesrceen is available for me, and it will be, I don't care how anyone else watches their discs. I strongly support widescreen presentation (as I support seeing films in a theater as the primary mode of viewing films) but there are some ignorant people out there and quite frankly, people have a right to be ignorant and watch TV as they see fit. The world has bigger problems than worrying about how some guy sitting at home and drinking a 6 pack is watching Star Wars in the wrong format.

 

[David Tolsky]

I agree with David B's earlier post concerning Joe 6-Pak's views. J6P wants his whole 4:3 set filled. End of story. And you know what, let's be honest here, a widescreen movie looks like shit on a 4:3 set, I don't care how good the transfer is. I sure as hell don't want to view a movie and have to look at those damn black bars either! My point here is that the dvd format is tailor made for a 16 x 9 set and ONLY that. So who do we have to blame for the slow-down? Perhaps the broadcast networks. If they would all just convert to HD and provide some content, we as consumers could get rid of our 4:3 sets once and for all and get a 16 x 9 set. That means the mainstream, including J6P, gets a widescreen set and has no choice but to view a dvd in OAR.
This is basic Film and TV 101. Filmmaking is a widescreen format. 4:3 television is not. The two really don't mix. Before laserdisc and dvd's, we were all J6P's because we didn't have a choice, having to view pan and scanned movies as the norm, and we got used to it.
Back in the early 50's, the motion picture industry viewed television as nothing but a threat. That's how we got widescreen features in the first place. TV was keeping people at home, so the movie folks made their images "bigger than life" to sell more tickets. Now, 50 years later we've finally found a way to mend the two formats together logically: with a widescreen set. If we could get rid our 4:3 sets, J6P would not exist.

 

[Scott Strang]

I just cannot believe this shit I'm reading. I've seen the type that don't like widescreen when I worked at Wal-Mart in the mid 80's. These people aren't capable of understanding what widescreen and OAR is all about.
If Wal-Mart doesn't want OAR, just send them the P&S versions and at least allow OAR titles to sell at places like Suncoast. The OAR ban won't stop at Wal-Mart and Sam's obviously. It will spread to K-Mart, Target, Costco,Best buy and Circuit City. The last two are nothing but home entertainment "Wal-Marts".
What really pisses me off is that collecting films on DVD has become a hobby that my wife and I dearly love. I never collected VHS since it seemed like a waste of money whereas DVD is an investment.
But I guess our hobby that we love is about to be crushed by these morons.
I will absolutely refuse to purchase product from any studio that caves into this pressure. Of course this will also mean no more DVD purchases.
My Dad used to say "John Q Public is a stupid son of a bitch". Why do you think they have to put warning labels on things like lawn mower decks or cut off switches on garden tractors that kill the engine when you get off of the seat.
He had a wide perspective on the world around us.
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