Diff b/t the Denon 2803 & 3803? (1 Viewer)

[John Garcia]

I hate to go middle of the road, but it's a toss up between the two. My opinion is biased, and as you can see, when the time came to buy a new receiver, I stuck with Marantz. Like I said though, you can't really go wrong with either of these units.

Not to complicate things either, but NAD is releasing the T763...and you might also find a T762 in the same price range right now on closeout.

 

[CurtisC]

Just goes to show you can't always believe what you read.The 3803 is rock solid and has lots of features not even mentioned yet.If you compare to Marantz spend a few hundred more than the 3803,if you compare to Onkyo,well I wouldn't and I owned the 656,777,898,none even came close to the 3803,my opinion only.

 

[MichaelDDD]

This has turned into quite the informative thread!

I've done a LOT of reading the past few days. I think I've narrowed it down to the Denon 3803 or the HK-7200...the HK is a little above my price range right now, but I'm not ready to purchase at this moment.

/checks pockets...no money, just lint


The 7200 is newer than the 3803 (IIRC) and I havne't found a lot of professional reviews on it yet. I've got time.

Please carry on with your discussion! I'm taking notes.

 

[Rick Lyon]

Michael, not sure about the 7200 but the 525 is reviewed as unreliable and only having 2 digital inputs but did have a good amp.

John, I was also looking at NAD but read too many rants about their poor customer service and spotty reliability. I don't want to have to worry about a defective unit, and then having to deal with no returned email support. So I'm staying away from NAD, plus I can't demo it either locally.

So down to the Marantz and Denon, I notice Denon has a 100mhz frequency on component inputs for HDTV. My Onkyo only has 50mhz, so I should get a better picture. Anyone know what the frequency for component is? I also read the 3803 was really only 50 wpc when all 5 channels were driven, that concerns me. I wonder what the Maratnz is?

 

[John Garcia]

The Marantz 7200 tested around 37w all channels driven, but the 7300 has a different power supply. The 7300 OSE has essentially the same power supply as the 8200, and I would call it a step up from the 3803, though it is still rated at 110wpc. The Marantz 8200 tested at 92wpc, I believe.

I don't really go by the ratings, because a dummy load will not react the same as a given combination of speakers, and it is rare, if if not very unlikely, that you will ever require full power to all speakers at once for more than a second or two.

Do you have more than one HD/component source? If not, I wouldn't use the receiver to pass video.

 

[Greg Thomas]

Michael, not sure about the 7200 but the 525 is reviewed as unreliable and only having 2 digital inputs but did have a good amp.

That's funny. My HK 325 has 3 digital coax inputs and 3 digital optical inputs as well as 1 digital coax out and 1 digital optical out. Where did you get your information? Just out of curiosity, how many digital inputs do you need?

 

[Chuck Kent]

Bandwidth-wise...
"System Bandwidth Requirements for Video:

NTSC Broadcast and VHS: 4.2 MHz
Laser Disk: 5.3 MHz

Regular NTSC DVD: 7 (6.8) MHz

Progressive Scan NTSC DVD and 480p DTV: 13.5 MHz

1080i HDTV: 37 MHz; in practice with 22 MHz the picture is still very superb.

720p HDTV; 37 MHz."

This is quoted from this link (which, BTW, is a good read)
http://hometown.aol.com/ajaynejr/bandwid.htm

50 or 100 MHz is more than enough for consumer grade video.

 

[MichaelDDD]

I am not ashamed to admit that I did not know ANY of that. Being a PC geek at heart, I know that the only thing better than bandwith is MORE of it. But I didn't know what AV components used how much bandwith.

That's a handy link. This info will help me decide on my next receiver. Now I know that a bandwith of 50Mhz isn't necessarily a bad thing vs. 100MHz

 

[Rick Lyon]

Chuck- I read yesterday that 50mhz was the minimum for HDTV, LOL, I guess a lot of what I'm reading isn't factual. Most of the receivers I saw were 5omhz, but the Denon I believe was 100mhz,

Greg- Not sure the model, but I read 2 digital outs. I copy and paste notes on the top 6-7 receivers I'm looking at to help me keep track of all the info I come across. I guess some of the stuff I've read isn't completely accurate, tho I read H/K had a ton of QC issues, they may have been cleaned up recently. That's exactly why I mention things and ask questions so I can hopefully get things cleared up. Thanks for the info.

John- I run component from my TV and DVD player. My HDVTV converter comes into my receiver then out to my monitor. My Onkyo shouldn't degrade the video quality and I like controlling everything thru my receiver. Do you think I'd see a difference, or is there a reason not to run it thru my Onkyo? I assume you mean otherwise to go from the converter box straight to my TV?

So you like Marantz 7300 (or ose) I see, they will rate higher per channel/all driven then the 3803? That's part of my issue as Paradigm said the Titans need a 'true' 80 wpc and my Onkyo doesn't seem to be an actual 80 wpc. So if I upgrade, I'm mostly doing it for power, but I want at least the same features as I currently have with the Onkyo. I know Onkyo is a good match with Paradigm, so i don't want to replace it with another receiver that will sound horrible when match with my 'digms. Some folks at S &V forums have gotten the 3803 for $699 because they ordered (on purpose) the 3802 from 6ave.com and were upgraded to the 3803 knowing the 3802 stock was depleted. Very tempting to try and see if I could get the 3803 for $699, but I may still want to visit my local shop to hear the Marantz with the 'digms and get some info from them.

 

[John Garcia]

You don't need a ton of power for the Titans, they are efficient and when crossed over appropriately, can play loud without distortion with average power. Having said that, I still say more power certainly won't be a bad thing. If you are looking at receivers in this range, I would say you'd be better off considering better speakers as well. I was looking at the OSE, and my dealer told me it would be enough and even offered me a very good deal on it, but I went with the 8300 anyway, because I wanted more power without going to a separate amp at this point. The 8300 is rated @120x6 @ 8Ohms, but a more telling detail might be the fact that it weighs quite a bit more than the 7300 (listed as 70lbs vs 50lbs).

 

[Rick Lyon]

Yea, I don't want to get too big of a receiver because it will go unused for a bit. I have thought if I upgraded speakers, I'd move the Titans as my surrounds back along with my ADPs, I'd be 7.1 while getting mini monitors or something for the front. I figure, when that day comes, I'd add an amp using the pre-out on whatever receiver I get. I know the Denon has that and I think the Marantz does as well. So I'm looking for real 80 wpc or so with all the current decoders and pre-outs for future upgrades. Both the Denon and Marantz have the rs-232c (no idea what that is) but I don't think the 3803 is upgradeable. I read someone posting that Denon said the 5803 was upgradable. I just read on another board that the 7400 would be coming out this month or so with Pro Logic llx. Not sure what that is either but that would make the 7300ose come down in price. Also, the Denon is 7.1 while the Marantz is 6.1.

 

[John Garcia]

RS232 is for software/firmware updates, such as the one now available for the 8200/9200.

PLIIx is for 6.1/7.1, current PLII is 5.1.

I have not heard of any new models from Marantz, and I would not expect to be seeing them so soon. The 8300 was only released a month ago. I would hope the 7300, 8300 and 9300 should be able to have PLII added via RS232, but that means being without the unit for a while.

I believe all of the models from the 5300 and up are 7.1 capable via pre-outs, which all of them have, but only the 6300 and up have 6 channels of power built in. The processing is there, and there is no difference between 6.1 and 7.1, it's just an extra speaker. If you have a smaller room, 7.1 is overkill, IMO.

The 3803 has one feature I really like, which is the ability to use a different set of surround speakers for music vs movies (up to 9 speakers attached).

 

[Rick Lyon]

Ah, ok. Yea, someone said the 7400 would be out in September on the ecoustic boards. Being middle October and little news about it maybe they heard wrong. So do you see any disadvantages other then maybe sound over the 3803 versus the 7300? The 7300ose seems to have 5 wpc more and discreet 6.1 while the 7300 didn't.

This is great discussion, btw, I'm getting some great info

 

[John Garcia]

The OSE uses the same DACs as the 8200, which in turn I believe are the same as my 8300, and they are one of the reasons I chose this receiver. I'm not sure which DACs are in the 7300, but they sound very smooth to me.

 

[Rick Lyon]

Are the DAC's that big of a deal to 80% HT use? I can get the 7300 for $679 refurbished. What's your opinion on refurbished units? Some seem to think them the best way to go as they have been inspected to work correctly. I'm mostly concerned with scratches or dented corners.

 

[Chuck Kent]

Both the Denon and Marantz have the rs-232c (no idea what that is) but I don't think the 3803 is upgradeable. I read someone posting that Denon said the 5803 was upgradable.

Don't know about the Marantz but the RS-232 connection on the 3803 is for HT automation control only. No software/firmware upgrades...

The 5803 does indeed have the ability to be upgraded. How much could be done by a home user has never been totally spelled out. The Denon Link for high resolution digital playback has been updated at least once so far. (I seem to remember that this was a hardware upgrade??) My guess is that Denon would likely not allow us to do much at home...

 

[John Garcia]

Yes, the DACs are still important to HT Good sounding DACs are good sounding DACs. I used to use analog from my SACD player for redbook CDs, but they actually sound better via digital with the 8300 handling the DAC.

I would not hesitate to take a demo receiver, but refurbs are hit and miss, kind of a crap shoot. I have a friend who got a refurb 5300 from AC4L, and it had a minor problem or two, but nothing that he felt he needed to send it back for. They will replace it or give you full credit towards something else if you have a problem, so there's at least a little comfort.

 

[Rick Lyon]

Wait, there's digital connections for SACD? I thought it was only analog? Or is that with high end units? My Pioneer Elite 45a is 6 channel analog out so I didn't know digital was possible. I love the line "Good sounding DACs are good sounding DACs" haha. Well, there's an online dealer (can't remember) that does Marantz B-Stock, but not as good a deal compared to Accessories4less, so I wonder if those units are less refurbed and more "I changed my mind" type returns.

So the 3803 isn't as upgradeable (rs-232) as the Marantz down the line then?

 

[John Garcia]

I believe Denon is the only manufacturer who has proprietary digital connections for SACD (5803 only, IIRC)
, meaning you have to have the source and receiver that have this type of connection.

I was referring to my SACD's (Sony 222ES) DACs with regular CDs vs the receiver's DACs via digital. I can only listen to SACDs via analog.

 

[Rick Lyon]

Ah. so that's high end stuff. Maybe one day