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Did THX ever have that "discussion" about the EE on Phantom Menace DVD???

Discussion in 'DVD' started by DaViD Boulet, Jun 10, 2003.

  1. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    Remember way back when all the bruhaha about the ringing/EE in the Phantom Menace DVD...and how the THX folks assured us that it had not been applied despite the fact that it was glaringly there? Many of us (including Bjoern who did an excellent review of this DVD here: http://www.videophile.info/Review/TPM/TPM_01.htm) hypothosized that it might have been due to a function of the MPEG encoder though definitely *not* an MPEG-compression artifact per-se.

    BTW, please, don't start posting comments like "maybe it's in the film elements" and other such non-sense which has long since been put to rest. If you have any questions about what I'm talking about...see the link to Bjoern's review above.

    Anyway...the THX folks said that they were going to host some sort of "discussion" where they would come out and talk about the whole issue, what happened/didn't happen etc. with the HT community. One would have imagined it would have been reported on here at HTF if it had happened and I don't remember ever hearing about it.

    Did it just quietly disappear? At least their Attack of the Clones DVD appears to have been properly mastered to 720 x 480 DVD without any distracting ringing from EE so that's a good sign. But it would be nice to know what happened with Phantom Menace and if we'll have a chance to buy a properly-mastered DVD in the future prior to HD-DVD release.

    So...does anyone know the scoop?
     
  2. Artur Meinild

    Artur Meinild Well-Known Member

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    To answer the topic question: I guess not.
    I lost a lot of faith in THX during this incident, and nothing they said really made any sense. All they did was to try and wipe it under the carpet and make people forget. Very bad QA and PR! [​IMG]
     
  3. RobertR

    RobertR Well-Known Member

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    I think the people at THX internally know they blew it on TPM, and they now realize that there would be no point in having us point out the obvious to them.
     
  4. Michael St. Clair

    Michael St. Clair Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yes, the infamous 'workshop' where they were going to show us that no EE or introduction had been introduced to the TPM transfer.

    I asked about it once or twice, to deafening silence.
     
  5. Tom M

    Tom M Well-Known Member

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    As I recall, they never said they WERE going to do a workshop just that they COULD do one if there was interest in it.

    My guess is that everyone misunderstood and thought that either the workshop was going to happen or already had. Either way talk about it died down and that was that.

    For the record, to this day I STILL can't see the EE in my TPM DVD. I looked pretty hard and nothing. Now, that's true of what I see on my system so don't jump all over me.

    Tombstone on the other hand...[​IMG]
     
  6. Andy_MT

    Andy_MT Well-Known Member

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  7. RobertR

    RobertR Well-Known Member

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  8. jonathan_little

    jonathan_little Well-Known Member

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    I personally enjoy watching the THX logo before the out-of-sync DTS presentation on the Moulin Rouge disc. Great stuff. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Well-Known Member

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    The Phantom Menace has ringing, but it's really only in select scenes (typical problem scenes like light/dark contrasts)

    Moulin Rouge is out of sync on certain players.
     
  10. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Well-Known Member

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  11. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    Jeff,

    How big is your TV screen?

    Watch the DVD on a well-calibrated 16x9 display in 480P or higher playback resolution. If need be...take it to your local HT boutique shop and give it a spin on one of their digital projectors (like the Sharp 10000 [​IMG] )...

    Now...sit about 1.5 screen-widths back. This is the "ideal" distance with good source material (like a well-rendered DVD) with a big-screen image to deliver a "theater-like" experience.

    The ringing/haloing is more than obvious in this type of presentation. Some folks may see it but be so used to "video" looking image that it might not occur to them at first that it's wrong. Heck...many people watch sports on huge 4x3 480 interlaced rear-projection sets and never seem to notice the HORRENDOUS scan-line alisiasing/interlacing artifacts that are plain-as-day. In any case...once you see it (the edge enhancment) it will be obvious from that point on.

    If your viewing angle is more than 2.5 screen-widths away from your display the ringing won't be obvious bcs your not close enough to perceive that level of detail from the transfer.

    -dave
     
  12. Declan

    Declan Well-Known Member

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    The r2 DVD of PM had EE, but from what i have seen, it was not as bad as the r1. Moulin Rouge DTS played grand on my player (Pioneer 717).


    Dare I mention Die hard With A Vengence, surley that was a bigger travesty than PM. DH 1 and 2 looked great (considereing their age), but this was just pure cack. Take a look at the theatrical trailer for DHWAV on disc 2 of the set. It's anmorphic and very filmic looking with no EE (that i could see), compared to the actual film.
     
  13. Geoff_D

    Geoff_D Well-Known Member

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    I've got both R2 and R1 versions of TPM and I can honestly say that I prefer the R1. Yes there are edge halos present on both versions, and do look more prominent on the R1, but I've seen a hell of a lot worse. On the plus side, the NTSC picture appears to have slightly less grain than the R2 (a consequence of NTSC's reduced vertical resolution perhaps?) and looks more solid as a result IMO. Even the colours look richer to me on the R1, as the R2 appears ever-so-slightly washed out. Having the audio in the correct pitch and uncensored extras are also big bonuses for the R1, so I think I'll be ditching the R2 soon.

    And as your man Declan so rightly points out, there are some truly hideous examples of haloing out there, with DHWAV as public enemy number one. Big Trouble in Little China (Fox again) has some obvious halos, as does the T2:UE dvd, and the new Robin Hood dvd also displays some (which is one of the reasons why I bitch about it so much in the RH[​IMG]oT thread).
     
  14. Paul_Stachniak

    Paul_Stachniak Well-Known Member

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    I remember the EE in Phantom Menace. This was before I got my HighDef TV too. It really stands out in the pod race sequence. It didn't bother me, because I never really liked the film. However, I felt bad for all the fans, who waited patiently for this DVD, to get such a shoddy transfer.
     
  15. Aaron Cohen

    Aaron Cohen Well-Known Member

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    I thought the complaining of DHWAV was limited to the original dvd release of it. I was assuming they had fixed it in the 2-disc edition. I own that one but have not watched it. I owned the original dvd but gave it away due to the transfer quality.

    I'm just confirming that this is the 2-disc version you are discussing here. Unbelievable that the EE issue was not fixed if it is.
     
  16. Geoff_D

    Geoff_D Well-Known Member

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    Aaron, it is the R1 2-disc version of DHWAV that we're talking about. This has the worst haloing out of any title in my 400-strong dvd collection. But y'know what? It's still preferable to the original R1 non-anamorphic DHWAV, which looked so shoddy I don't even wanna think about it.
     
  17. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone campared the 2-disc to the original?
     
  18. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Well-Known Member

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  19. Reagan

    Reagan Well-Known Member

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    As far as THX goes, they really missed the boat in the home theater software department. As Robert Harris pointed out, all their certification process does is certify that the equipment used to master the disc meets their standards. If they would expand their certification to include things like: a) no EE, b) acceptible bit rate and lack of compression artifacts, and c) film grain that matches theatrical grain levels, then we would have something very useful.

    Back in the day when THX was limited to movie theater equipment issues (the '80s), the THX stamp of approval really meant something. At the theater I worked in, the projectionists told me stories of how the THX guys would measure things like the level of ambient noise generated by HVAC system. If noise levels were too high, then the theater could lose its THX certification. Good stuff.

    -Reagan
     
  20. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Well-Known Member

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