Denon 2900.....I sure love it (1 Viewer)

[Cary]

Thanks, Lewis, for checking on this. I agree with you, it's right on the edge between a hardware or software incompatibility issue - could be either. Particularly in a model that's had a history of other software-controlled lockups, it raised a red flag for me. If it's an isolated issue, then I'm fine. If the next 12 DTS discs I play do it, then I'm not fine. Please post once you hear something.

Off topic - listening to the Flaming Lips' Yoshimi on DVDA. The 2 channel is impeccable - just what you expect, and even clearer, more detailed version of what I heard on CD. The 5 channel mix is very active and sounds very different - I'm not sure how I like it. If I'd listened to this first, then it would be the only reference I know - now it's like the original, version 2.0.

 

[TrevorS]

FWIW -- I've yet to have a problem with a DTS disc on the 2900, though I haven't played many yet and I don't have the new Alien set.

Cary -- What kind of music is that?

Trevor

 

[Cary]

This is the only DTS problem I've noticed - in fact, the only DVD glitches I've seen at all.

And the Flaming Lips are a fairly arty & yet goofy alternative rock act, from the lovely state of Oklahoma. This record features a Japanese heroine, robots and paens to the pastoral life - you know, the usual. :b

 

[Lewis Besze]

I'm not exactly sure if this is a "DTS problem",I think it has to do with seamless branching,as the picture stops completelly.

 

[Cary]

Lewis, my initial impression was that it was branching, but I only get the problem on the DTS versions. It's possible that it's the combination of DTS & branching, but the points don't really seem to match up with the branch points, as I originally thought. What's interesting to me is that I haven't heard confirmation from a single other 2900 owner that they have replicated the problem. Oh well...

 

[TrevorS]

In case anyone is interested: For several days now I've actually had my multi-channel input processor back (it's been mostly in the shop so far). This has actually allowed me to do some CD stereo and also Hi-Res multi-channel listening with my modified 2900. I can only say that I'm pretty much wowed to the max.

One CD where I like the music, but have always found the recording quality to be a serious downer, is Carol King's "Tapestries". I played that last night and was truly amazed at what I was hearing (now I like it much more). The timbre, vibrancy, and size of the piano was excellent. The sense of presence and volume of Carol's voice, and also the sheer size of the stage were wonderful. Joni Mitchell's "Blue" has a little more distortion present than "Tapestries", but it was still darned good, with beautiful instrument portrayal. And I had read the 2900 didn't do well with CD !!!

Going to multi-channel, I've frequently read the 2900 sounds better with the stereo tracks than with the surround. I can only say the suround sound I was hearing with "Pet Sounds", "Hotel California", and Norah Jones was super high quality and out-distanced the stereo tracks. When I say out-distanced, I don't mean just the wraparound effects, but the clarity and ease in the sound.

I'm told the stereo output cables I've been awaiting for a month plus, will actually ship on Monday (touch wood) and so I hope I'll be able to finally have a good listen with minimal signal path stereo in a couple weeks. After what I'm hearing with the processor multi-channel inputs, I'm really curious about what that will be like.

Trevor

 

[Lewis Besze]

Cary,don't forget that 2900 has a larger then avarage memmory buffer,which could acoount for the actual branching time stops/freeze.Though it's only a theory of mine.

What's interesting to me is that I haven't heard confirmation from a single other 2900 owner that they have replicated the problem. Oh well..

Check out the " HTF Alien Quadrology review" thread even the reviewer had the same problems.He uses the 2900 as well.Besides me and him there was a couple of other 2900 owners there with the same problem.

 

[Lewis Besze]

I can only say the suround sound I was hearing with "Pet Sounds", "Hotel California", and Norah Jones was super high quality and out-distanced the stereo tracks. When I say out-distanced, I don't mean just the wraparound effects, but the clarity and ease in the sound.

My experience exactly. 99 % of the time I end up favoring the MC track for both DVD-A and SACD.
Did you remod the player for MC too or just for 2 channel?

 

[Bruce Abar]

Going to multi-channel, I've frequently read the 2900 sounds better with the stereo tracks than with the surround. I can only say the suround sound I was hearing with "Pet Sounds", "Hotel California", and Norah Jones was super high quality and out-distanced the stereo tracks. When I say out-distanced, I don't mean just the wraparound effects, but the clarity and ease in the sound.

Hi Trevor,
With the right recording, you cannot beat multi track. If I remember correctly, you had all your channels modded.....I'm sure that would be a bonus in multi channel. My next investment I'm going to move into separates more, To make any improvements with my marantz sr14ex sound, I will have to look into a processor first, and go from there.

 

[TrevorS]

Hi, guys

As Bruce said, I went kind of whole hog and did the lot. The rears probably wouldn't matter so much to most people since the speakers really would be in the rear. However, mine are located directly to my left and right and so I bounce them of the rear wall (only about 2-1/2 ft behind me) to simulate more rearward sources. Consequently, the sonic accuracy of my rears is almost as important as the fronts. I use a couple of good sized passive style subwoofers up front which also benefit from the sonic tightening the modification provides. So, yes, I did the lot.

I had read the bass output level could be a problem (I don't have separate multichannel bass calibration in my processor) and so I took a preventative step by having 6dB of analog gain added to the bass channel. My configuration uses the FILTER OFF mode, but the calibrated bass level has ended up about mid adjustment range -- could hardly have worked out better. (I think it would have been nice if the 2900 channel adjustment range was more than just 10dB.)

I'm thinking part of the multi-channel Vs stereo comments may be based on some people simply not liking many of the multi-channel mixes. Personally, I seem to be hearing cleaner channels when they are kept separate than when I go to the mixed down stereo. Something seems different in the production quality.

Another thing I'm noticing is that SACD recordings generally seem very smooth and round and easy to listen to, but not particulary satisfying in their transient behavior. I find DVD_A to be more believable in that area. Admittedly, my sample base is awfully small, but it very much reminds me of digital-to-analog technology where the bit-stream type (like delta-sigma) was always smooth and round and pleasing to listen to, but the multibit-ladder type was better with transients and bass slam. It makes me wonder if the typical preferance for SACD out there may actually be misplaced. Still -- just some thoughts.

Cheers -- Trevor

 

[Lewis Besze]

Another thing I'm noticing is that SACD recordings generally seem very smooth and round and easy to listen to, but not particulary satisfying in their transient behavior. I find DVD_A to be more believable in that area.

Yep my sentiment exactly too.I always tought that most DVD-A has more "snap" to it,but SACD is more "lush".I like'em both.

 

[TrevorS]

Hey, Bruce

I'm finally getting to do some critical listening comparing the stereo output (CD format) from my modified Denon 2900 and my $7000 Sonic Frontiers DAC (with interpolated 20 bit input and cathode follower outputs). Basically, what I'm finding is that the two sound so darned similar it's ridiculous. No, they're not equal, and the Denon doesn't come in first. However, the 2900 isn't the slightest embarassed by the comparison, and I doubt most people would notice much of a difference.

With all the audio mods I had them do, I was wondering if my final performance to cost ratio might have gone south compared to the base unit. As it is, I would guess having those same sonics on all channels, plus the improved picture, together with all the standard 2900 capabilities, might well justify a cost on the order of twice or more what I paid.

Shall we just say I'm pleased!

 

[Bruce Abar]

Good to hear trevor! All channels equal,you cant go wrong with your modd 2900. I mean lets face it, your comparing to a $7000 unit and accomplished nearly the same sound(in only two channel). Im so amazed with my 2900, I cant stop buying sacd and dvd audio discs. There are times when I wonder what a 5900 would sound like linked in my system since I paid the same price for the modd 2900. I could not imagine the 5900 producing better sound. The 2900 has made me happy since day one.......every new disc I insert is a new experience!

 

[TrevorS]

Glad to hear your player continues to churn out the goods. I've no doubt the 5900 has an audio advantage over the stock 2900, but it appears the Parts Connexion guys really know what they're doing. I wondered about the ModWright tube output (expected it to be an improvement over our high-end Burr-Brown op amps), but having compared with my tube output DAC, it seems to make little difference.

I'm finding more and more I prefer DVD-A MLP encoding to SACD. Yes, SACD sounds "nice" and is usually easy to listen to (certainly compared to the average Red Book CD), but at least to my ears, it typically sounds less real, and I thought that was what hi-resolution was supposed to be all about -- getting reproduced sound that is closer to real.

The worst SACD sound I've heard so far was recorded using DSD technology (i.e. new recordings). The best have been from older analog masters. Direct Stream Digital recording seems to round everything off, guitar strings, percussion, voices, piano, everything. I sure hope DVD_A gets more support from the studios -- I'm getting worried.

-- Trevor

P.S. I see Underwood HiFi has a set of mods for the 5900 now. That should be a nice setup.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I sure hope DVD_A gets more support from the studios -- I'm getting worried.

Maybe things will improve when the flipper discs come out.

 

[TrevorS]

Well, Lee

I'm not too sure what I would have to do to optimize for SACD. I do know that at least 95% of CD's don't sound good on my system, so it clearly isn't optimized for CD (though the rare truly well mastered CD can sound pretty close to analog). My analog sound with a well mastered LP is definitely excellent.

DVD_A sounds bright if the center located TV screen is exposed, but that goes away when I cover it with sound absorbing material. Since reflections emanating from between the front speakers have been bad news for as long as audio has been taken seriously, I can't consider DVD_A to be at fault for that.

As I said, SACD from analog master tapes sounds relatively good to me, but not when recorded directly with DSD. Any improvement to the transient behavior of SACD via the tuning of my system would cause problems for all the other formats, and so -- I'm wondering what you have in mind when you say "optmized for SACD".

Thanks -- Trevor

P.S. If there are some specific SACD's I should consider, I'm listening. (Example of a decent SACD, Louis Armstrong with Ella Fitzgerald, but that has an analog source.)