deep space 9 question ? (1 Viewer)

[Jason_V]

Personally, I like the serialized episodes. It's more believable to me that the actions one day affect the next day. Some people don't like that and prefer not to follow a continuing story. I was only giving you a reason for the mix of episode types.

"Dr. Bashir, I Presume" is absolutely important. It reveals a major item about a main character.

I really don't think you can call the Klingons one dimensional. We know an awful lot about them and it goes beyond key words like honor and loyalty. The same for the Ferengi. The episodes you mention ("Business as Usual" and "Ferengi Love Songs"), while not your favorite episodes, serve to flesh out the species more.

There was no way Jake was ever going to die. Avery Brooks was a huge proponent of showing an African American father/son relationship, something that continues through the end of the series. Jake was underutilized, but he is an essential character for Ben Sisko's story.

 

[jimmyjet]

but that could have been done in 2 minutes. it did not take a whole show. much of the show was the interface of doctor, miles and bashir - quite entertaining.

i dont think of jake as being the slightest bit essential. and they dont use him that often, thankfully.

i simply dont think he is much of an actor. it is too bad that personal feelings were used to keep an actor on the job.

dismissing the start of ds9, i dont recall any other trek show where i thought there were this many weak shows in that sort of time frame.

it does not go to much further than loyalty and honor - unless you want to consider violence and killing as an extra !!

ferengi are even more one-dimensional.

the only thing that makes rom, nog, and sometimes quark multi-dimensional is when they have them behave like a non-ferengi.

 

[Jason_V]

1) It could have, but the rest of the episode was helping to build Bashir's character with his parents. See, you were just saying some species are one dimensional. When the writers take one of their main characters and provide a backstory, you don't like it either. Besides, the ep gave us more Robert Picardo...never a bad thing.

2) Separate Cirroc Lofton the actor from Jake the character. Look at all of Trek. There is not another long-term father/son relationship in the franchise. And there isn't one again. So it provided a different dynamic in the show and gave Ben something else to consider with his every action.

3) That's bull. Look at TNG seasons 1 and 2. TOS Season 3. Voyager Season 2 and parts of 3. Enterprise Season 1.

4) Loyalty, honor, belief systems, politics, family dynamics...that's just the surface. I'm sorry you don't see that.

5) Rom and Nog are not typical Ferengi, agreed. It shows a person can break away from the stereotype of their race/gender/culture.

 

[jimmyjet]

1) where did you come up with that ? i didnt say that i didnt like having a backstory. i simply said that it was not essential. the show was extremely entertaining, cuz miles, the doctor, and bashir were wonderful playing back and forth with one another.

2) true. they just dont need to have the son on much, in order to do that. and they dont. plus, i think they made a poor choice. forgetting about the acting ability, cirroc is simply too tall. they would have been much better off, if they had gotten someone who looked like a son, instead of an adult who is now 3 inches taller than avery.

3) i did not think any of the other treks had that many weak episodes in that frame. which shows of tos from season 3 did you not like ? i dont really recall not liking any of the shows at all from tos. at least none come to mind.

4) i am sorry that you dont see that klingons are very one-dimensional, when compared to other races.

5) i think it is to be expected that when you spend enough time with someone from a different culture, one is apt to pick up on some of that, seeing that perhaps some things are better, and then adapting them into their lifestyles.

the ferengi on this show have done that. even quark, although he doesnt want it to get out !! and worf has a lot of humanity engrained on him, when compared to the typical klingon.

 

[jimmyjet]

p.s. i did see some of the original airings of enterprise. but not all of the series. and other than scott bakula being the captain, i cant say that i have any memories at all of it.

so i was not including that show in my original statement. but i do have the dvds of tos, tng, and voy, and have seen them all in the past couple of years.

although, other than tos, i would probably have to view the show again. i have seen tos in reruns so many times, that i could probably read a little blurb about it, and have a pretty good recall of it.

 

[Jason_V]

1) where did you come up with that ? i didnt say that i didnt like having a backstory. i simply said that it was not essential. the show was extremely entertaining, cuz miles, the doctor, and bashir were wonderful playing back and forth with one another.

You said the episode was not essential. I'm disagreeing. But we're both entitled to our own opinions.

2) true. they just dont need to have the son on much, in order to do that. and they dont. plus, i think they made a poor choice. forgetting about the acting ability, cirroc is simply too tall. they would have been much better off, if they had gotten someone who looked like a son, instead of an adult who is now 3 inches taller than avery.

Cirroc Lofton wasn't on very much in the later seasons of the show. But hold on...now you're saying that natural growth for an actor is a bad thing? I don't understand. When the show started, Cirroc was a kid. By Season 7, he was an adult. Growth happens. It happens to every single child on a television show over time.

3) i did not think any of the other treks had that many weak episodes in that frame. which shows of tos from season 3 did you not like ? i dont really recall not liking any of the shows at all from tos. at least none come to mind.

Really? How about the group of The Mark of Gideon, That Which Survives, The Lights of Zetar, Requiem for Methuselah and The Way to Eden from TOS S3? Outrageous Okona, Loud as a Whisper, The Schizoid Man and Unnatural Selection from TNG S2? A Matter of Time, New Ground, Hero Worship, Violations and The Masterpiece Society from TNG S5? Phantasms, Dark Page, Attached, Force of Nature and Inheritance from TNG S7? Elogium, Non Sequitur, Twisted, Paturation, Persistence of Vision, Tattoo and Cold Fire from VOY S2? Most of VOY S6 and S7? I tried to limit this list to four or more consecutive episodes which are "meh" on my scale.

4) i am sorry that you dont see that klingons are very one-dimensional, when compared to other races.

Don't be sorry for me. I'm sorry for you since the Klingons are, outside of humans and Bajorans, the most developed race in all of Trek. What do you want to know about them that we don't know? For heaven's sake, they have their own official language!!

5) i think it is to be expected that when you spend enough time with someone from a different culture, one is apt to pick up on some of that, seeing that perhaps some things are better, and then adapting them into their lifestyles. the ferengi on this show have done that. even quark, although he doesnt want it to get out !! and worf has a lot of humanity engrained on him, when compared to the typical klingon.

No disagreement on any of that. Of course you pick up traits from the people you're around. I'd be an idiot to argue otherwise. Quark has a lot of Cardassian, Bajoran and human in him. And Worf...he's been around Klingons his entire life. His adopted parents are human. His adopted brother is human. Of course he has a lot of humanity. But all the Klingons do, to a certain extent.

 

[jimmyjet]

cirroc was tall for his age. he dwarfed nog. i would have chosen someone who could remain more childlike, if it had been my intention to display fatherhood in a positive light.

 

[Jason_V]

That's a ridiculous argument to make, jimmy. He was supposed to dwarf Nog. Ferengi, going back to their first appearance on TNG, were shorter creatures.NO ONE is going to remain childlike for seven years. I am taller than my mother and have been for years. My partner is taller than his father. My mother is taller than her mother.Why is this even an issue?Sidenote: I'm unfollowing this conversation. It's fruitless and I have other things to do with my time.

 

[jimmyjet]

i liked all the tos shows that you mentioned.

and gosh, voyager with seven and the doctor was some of the best treks ever.

let's agree to disagree about the one-dimensionality of the klingons - that is getting us nowhere.

 

[jimmyjet]

i cant figure out what you dont get - cirroc is a tall person. i would have chosen a shorter person, as that would have looked more childlike to the audience.

 

[jimmyjet]

okay jason,

i will exit as well.

 

[Tino]

That's a ridiculous argument to make, jimmy. He was supposed to dwarf Nog. Ferengi, going back to their first appearance on TNG, were shorter creatures.NO ONE is going to remain childlike for seven years. I am taller than my mother and have been for years. My partner is taller than his father. My mother is taller than her mother.Why is this even an issue?Sidenote: I'm unfollowing this conversation. It's fruitless and I have other things to do with my time.

Amen Jason. I agree pretty much with everything you have said. This is just getting silly now. I'm outta this thread too. It was weirdly entertaining for awhile but has now gone off the rails. Carry on.

 

[jimmyjet]

i just watched behind the lines.

they want us to believe that odo has gotten mesmerized by what he experiences in the link.

but i am guessing that odo is too disciplined for that, and that he is actually implanting false information to the leader of the founders.

kira is acting furious with odo. but i am guessing that she is in on it ?

just my suspicions - pretty interesting cat and mouse game !!

but i think this is the strategy that i would attempt to use. the founders seem to have too much technical superiority.

when that is the case, for example in sports - you cant beat your opponent straight up.

you gotta try to stay close, and then surprise them with something that they simply werent expecting !!

 

[jimmyjet]

disappointed with how they got the station back.

 

[benbess]

Here's a big vote for DS9 to be rebuilt for blu-ray. Hope it happens.

 

[jimmyjet]

hi ben,

star trek has a high degree of getting things released. is there some reason that you think it wont be put on blu-ray ?

 

[jimmyjet]

i am having problems buying this recent odo experience. almost as much as sisko displacing the planet.

at the end of the experience, odo tells kira that he experienced paradise, but wasnt ready for it.

lets take a look at the facts.

1) odo knows the founders are not gods. and in fact, while they may be technically sophisticated, they are not even close to being enlightened. their only goal is to impose their definition of order on the universe. sounds no different than any other despot ruling nation, of which there have been countless numbers.

2) so odo knows this is not paradise.

3) i cede that he experienced a wonderful physical experience, and an emotional one as well - something that he cant feel, as a solid.

4) but all the gang is fairly disciplined. odo being the model of discipline. he simply would not have done this while his friends were in trouble. and he was totally responsible for one of them in jail waiting to be executed.

5) now what would have been very interesting to me, is if they had given this sort of experience to quark. quark is definitely gaining a conscience, but still at the beginning stages. to tempt him with something like that would have been very hard to resist. and i think a much more accurate storyline than to have odo be the "culprit".

 

[jimmyjet]

jadzia just got married - when she was walking forward, she had a crown around her head.

it never dawned on me before, but she has a lot of resemblance to wonder woman !!

 

[benbess]

hi ben,

star trek has a high degree of getting things released. is there some reason that you think it wont be put on blu-ray ?

Yes, I'm cautiously optimistic that DS9 will be rebuilt, but there are some challenges.

First, the built-in audience for DS9 is smaller than that for TNG. How much smaller is difficult to say. I'd like to think that some people who haven't given DS9 enough of a chance will give it a go, since I think it's a great show. But the bottom line that that the blu-ray sets of DS9 won't sell quite as well as those for TNG.

Second, the increased use of cgi effects for DS9 creates some added costs. Some of these cgi fx survive, and some of them were rendered with enough detail to be reused. But some of the effects don't survive and/or weren't done at a high enough resolution to be reused. So there will be a need for some moderately expensive rebuilding of FX from scratch. Costs for cgi have come down a lot since the show went off the air, but they are still labor intense and not particularly cheap.

In spite of those things, however, my guess is that we'll get an announcement in the next few months that they are launching into doing DS9.

I think it helps when we mention the show here. And I think of my avatar pic as a very small part of the campaign.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I think they will redo DS9 and Voyager in HD, it's the worldwide market they will be looking at and not just the USA market.

I really wish they had control of the movies, i drool at the thought of how good they would look if treated correctly, unfortunately i still cannot bring myself to buy any of them except Star Trek II. ( and the two recent ones )