Debbie Does Dallas:UE and The Devil in Miss Jones (1 Viewer)

[Steve Christou]

That's hysterical Russell I did a similar thing 25 years ago with a vhs copy of the unrated Caligula I managed to get me mitts on. I lent it to my parents telling them it's a Peter O'Toole historical epic...

 

[Henry Gale]

That's a much better story than, for instance, a drug OD at age 27.

 

[Kevin M]

Except that no one has been able to prove that she did die of an overdose in the mid 80's (which is the rumor that IMDB seems to favor in their bio of her), in fact no one knows a single thing about what happened to her after her three porns. They can't prove she died, they can't even agree on what her real name was (Debbie DeSanto / Barbara Woodson?) or when she was born or where (South Dakota? That's never been proven...I also read she was from Long Island somewhere)...the "family" line I used was from an article I read a while back but recent investigating (thank's to this thread and Google) seems to disagree on just who "Bambi" really was or where she came from....or where she went.

 

[M]

I think that every film lover should have his copy of "Plan 9" right next to Burton's "Ed Wood".

What's the big deal with "Caligula"??? I haven't seen it.

"Deep Throat" has better original soundtrack than all movies in the last 3 years.

When will that "Traci Lords - The Early Years" DVD box-set be released?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Here's the short version of the story (as best I know it, by all means someone step in if I screw this up):

In the early 70s, Playboy started financing some feature films - not porn, but quality productions, such as Roman Polanski's film of "Macbeth". Bob Guccione, the owner/publisher of Penthouse Magazine, decided he wanted to do something similar, and it was eventually announced that he would be making a big budget epic about the life of the insane ancient Roman emperor Caligula. Malcolm McDowell was signed to lead an all-star international cast, including Helen Mirren, Peter O'Toole, Sir John Gielgud, etc. The original script had been written by Gore Vidal. Apparently the shooting was a mess, with Guccione frequently disagreeing with the film's original director, Tinto Brass, over the amount of sex in the film. By the time the film had finished shooting, Brass had been locked out of the editing room and fired, and Gore Vidal had sued to have his writing credit taken off the film. The main cast claims that they were never told that they were in a film that would include hardcore pornography. Bob Guccione shot extra "scenes" that consisted of extremely graphic sex, and was also responsible for completely recutting the film in a way that basically makes no sense nor is anywhere near historically accurate. The performances are pretty awful across the board, although since it was edited so poorly, who knows, maybe there was some great acting captured on film that never made it into the film. It's a movie where in the middle of a dialogue scene, at times it will almost randomly cut to shots of sex and nudity. Basically, the film (if you can call it that) is a disaster...

...which is what makes it so entertaining today. You're literally watching a train wreck. The film fails on pretty much all levels; it fails as a historical drama, it's badly shot, badly edited, badly acted, badly directed. It contains some of the most disgusted acts of depraved violence I have ever seen depicted onscreen, as well as (badly assembled) sex sequences that they didn't even try to tie into the plot. Apparently scenes were also shuffled out of order in the editing room per Guccione's demands, resulting in a film with little narrative sense. Can anyone else think of a film with such high profile and talented actors that wound up this way? It doesn't even have a director's or writer's credit on it! I think it's something like "Adapted from an Original Screenplay by Gore Vidal" and "Additional scenes directed by Tinto Brass" or something equally ridiculous.

Roger Ebert's original review of the film from its initial release (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...S/9220301/1023) is quite entertaining. He sums it up pretty well: "Caligula is not good art, it is not good cinema, and it is not good porn."

Should you encounter the DVD, by all means, check it out. The original, unrated cut comes in a case with blue artwork. The R-rated version, which runs almost an hour (!) shorter, comes in a case with red artwork, and isn't worth wasting your time on. And the "making-of" documentary on the DVD is priceless. It runs about an hour and was shot as the film was being made, and it's great to hear people talking about it as if it was the best film ever made.

 

[M]

Thank you for your time, but you didn't have to put that much effort. At least not for this kind of movie.

No, thank you. I don't have the stomach even for "Gladiator".

 

[Ruz-El]

I have to say, Sir Malcolm McDowell was never in finer form then when he was fisting those newlyweds in Caligula.

 

[Bob clamer]

^ I have this movie (the unrated version) and still have not broken the cherry (sort of speak) on it. Looks like its time to watch it soon.

 

[Ruz-El]

^ LOL!

Apparantly it took the knowledge of McDowell fisting newlyweds to convince him to watch it.

And because I don;t get the opportunity to say it much on the boards...

"fisting"

okay, I'm good now, got it out of my system

 

[M]

Would you be so kind, mister, to explain the meaning of that word to someone who is not very familiar with english vocabular? In detail, please.

 

[Bob clamer]

LOL! Not really the reason but it does help!!! Was the "Fisting" included in the R rated version?

Now back to the DDD and DMJ please?

 

[MatthewHA]

Now that you have extolled the virtues of porn-making, and have cast in such a positive light, are you going to ignore the negative aspects of the industry? (I feel a need to go after what is ignored, too.) You can start with the general depravity of all involved, the death of feeling and empathy as the audience ignores all of the emotionally damaged people acting like animals, the shattered lives, the drug induced stupors, the coercions, the lying, the cheating, the deaths: murders and suicides associated with the "art", the involvement of children in that lifestyle--can you look at it with such admiration after considering these things?

Perhaps some of you do not feel wierd about betraying to the rest of the forum your habit of masturbatory self-gratification, since expressing a need to have a certain "classic" porn title in your collection really says "I want it so I can masturbate to it every once in a while." Or are we supposed to believe that the original poster simply wants "Debbie Does Dallas" in his collection so he can watch it without touching himself? My point? Do we really need to know that you want a certain title that with each viewing you will no doubt be pulling out the tissues, closing the blinds, and locking the doors. It's not something I want to imagine but, that is really the visual subtext here, if not stated explicitly. Have fun!

 

[Bob clamer]

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN! Now I wish I never posted this thread. I may have said that I would like to have these titles in my sparse porn collection (3 titles out of 1700 none porn titles) becuase these were flat-out classics that I had never seen. Hell, my wife would even like to see them.

I do feel bad for the people that were involved and who they had to deal with and the mysteries behind their deaths/disappearances but that is the business they chose either through the thrill of it, the money involved or out of shear desperation to make ends meet. Do I agree with their lifestyle choices? Not really but who am I to judge. Some of the more notable female stars have gone onto bigger and better things or at least tried to via TV or movies as well as the male stars. Either in front or behind the camera. Nowadays it is almost in reverse. Movie/TV/Musicians are making porn that gets leaked out (however bad it actually is) and have it work out better for them. Just my .02

 

[Francois Caron]

If anyone's interested, I wrote a review of the unrated Caligula DVD years ago when it first came out. You'll find it over here.

That reminds me. I have to clean the disc again...

Funny thing. If you want porn with a storyline, the only outlet available today is Japanese animated pornography a.k.a. Hentai. In fact, I also wrote a review for the "Cool Devices" DVD release. You can find that over here.

Enjoy!

(I'm gonna get banned from this site one of these days... )

 

[ChristopherDAC]

Oh, what a tirade! Here's a hint, man : if you're going to rant, make it an original rant, OK? That I can respect, but this spew of yours is just trite, and your fascination with makes it clear that you have far more of a dirty mind than anyone else who has posted in this thread so far.

 

[Ruz-El]

You might liek to read up on Jenna Jameson, Nina Hartley and others before making a blanket claim to abuse in the porn industry.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Various theories about Bambi's identity and whereabouts are discussed (without conclusion) in Debbie Does Dallas Uncovered:

http://www.digitallyobsessed.com/sho...w.php3?ID=8355

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Whoa.

I don't believe I've extolled the virtues of porn-making, and it was not my intention to do so. I find the porn INDUSTRY far more interesting than the films themselves, and when I talk about a porno having this kind of tone or that kind of feeling, that's not an endorsement, that's a description. As someone who's spent most of his life studying film, I feel that my education would have been incomplete without at least some basic knowledge of that industry, just as I felt slighted in college for not being given the option to study music videos either.

There are plenty of things in the porn industry to be repulsed by, like the murders and suicides you've mentioned above. There have been people, plenty of them, that have been chewed up and spit out by the porn industry, but give me an industry where that hasn't happened. And then there have been people, like Georgina Spelvin of The Devil in Miss Jones, who was a willing participant and who has positive feelings about her own work. This all started when someone joked about what the cast of the film would say if they had done an audio commentary, and my thoughts were an extension of that idea. My point is that there are many fascinating tales behind that film and others that would have made for a good commentary track. One needs to look know further than a film like Boogie Nights to see that there are stories to be told, and in some cases, lessons to be learned.

In another post, I suggested that anyone interested in learning more about the film to check out a book called "The Other Hollywood", which includes interviews with porn stars (both those who are proud of the work they've done and those who regret it), porn filmmakers, government officials who tried to shut it down, all of those things... it's a balanced account that neither extols nor attacks the merits of porn. It's an attempt to tell the story, the full story, as best as possible, and that's what I like about it.

So the real question becomes, if those are your feelings about porn, why did you choose to participate in this thread in such a hostile way? I respect your right to dislike the world of porn; please respect my and the rest of the participants' right to conduct this thread in a civil manner. If you don't see any redeeming value in porn whatsoever, I can respect that...but please respect our right to discuss parts of the porn business relevant to the discussion and allow us to continue this thread in the spirit it was started. I would say that falls under the board's rule to keep personal politics outside of the realm of discussion; for better or worse, these films have become classics and we are entitled to discuss them (and their DVD releases) in that context. If you'd like to discuss the films in a civil manner, then by all means, pull up a chair. If all you'd like to do is insult and ridicule people who choose to participate in this thread, please take your comments and attitude elsewhere.

Here at HTF, we're about tolerance and respect.

 

[Ruz-El]

OOOPS!! I should of thought of that before mentioning fisting and jerking off. sorry about that!

HUMPS!!

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Re: your response to my comment about the film's lack of historical accuracy:


No argument here. I can't claim to know enough about European history to be able to determine what films are more or less accurate than others. In the case of Caligula, though, it's lack of accuracy is worth mentioning because Bob Guccione (in the "making-of" included on the disc) claims that he has made the most historically accurate film EVER made on ancient Rome, and that it was his intent to present things EXACTLY as they were. It's hilarious to hear him talking about the film and making these outlandish claims, almost worth the price of admission in and of itself.