Dear Disney, please restore controversial scenes in upcoming Fantasia Platinum DVD/BD (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

For the individual that said he does not buy Disney's response to us....

Let me say this....

I am certainly not here to defend Disney. I don't believe in the
censorship of film because something presented to modern day
audiences may not be PC and could possibly offend someone.

I believe that done correctly, Disney could certainly release
Song of the South or Fantasia with the excised
footage. I am very disappointed that the studio won't stand
behind their films when facing controversy over historic material.

However, this is the way Disney has always rolled and I have
accepted the fact that they will never change.

One of the things I could plainly see during our visit with them is
that more than any other studio, they keep things tightly to the vest.
Additionally, through what I learned from the studio tour and through
the words of the BD development team, everything that is done at
Disney is through the vision of Walt. In other words, the studio strives
to keep Walt's vision alive. For that reason, every decision that is made
is done with the attitude of "what would Walt do in this situation?!"

One must also keep in mind that Disney is the staple of childhood
dreams. It is for that reason that their squeaky clean image is
protected at any cost. Even I can see the risks involved with a studio
of Disney's reputation getting caught up in controversy over a decision
to release anything race related that can bite them in the ass.

The minute one of our members brought up "Song of the South" you
could see the panel of Disney developers cringing. They wanted
to immediately move on to another subject. I could see right there
and then that we will probably never see any future incarnations of
the film to the home video market.

Listen, I feel your pain in this situation, however I am also in a very
unique position to play devil's advocate and somewhat understand
Disney's position as well. I hope that I can convince some of you who
are politely urging the studio to do something in your favor here to
understand why they probably will not.

 

[Bob_L]

The more Disney cuts and molests their anthology music films and refuses to release "The Song of the South" (which has one of the finest performances by a black actor in film history, IMO), the more the value of my Japanese laserdisc copies increase.

Go Disney!!!

 

[Rachel Bowman]

I disagree. There are plenty of protest groups that would jump at the chance to increase their visibility and therefore increase their own fundraising. Disney is a giant target and people are constantly firing shots at them in order to get onto the 5 o'clock news and bring attention to their pet causes.

 

[SilverWook]

Disney wasn't shy about releasing SOTS on video overseas in the 90's. Where were the protests then? It's not like it was impossible to get the Laserdisc then or now.

Release both films uncut on Blu-Ray in Europe, and the would be protectors of the "tiny tots" here probably won't even notice.

 

[MatthewA]

Michael Eisner's home phone was written on a wall somewhere, and that was removed before the film came to video (for privacy reasons).

Baby Herman "flipping the bird" under a woman's skirt as he walks off the set and a one-frame shot of Jessica spinning out of Benny the Cab which reveals that she's "going commando" were removed in the mid-1990s but are still on the original video and laserdisc. They went largely unnoticed until magazines like Entertainment Weekly printed them. This is why I still own the CAV laserdisc of this film.

Also removed was a two-frame picture of a topless woman in a window when the albatross is taking of in "The Rescuers" that no one seemed to notice until its 1999 video reissue. Who put it there is yet to be determined.

 

[Brian W.]

Oh, yeah. Asian stereotypes persist to this day in movies and television. Asian actors are more discriminated against than actors in any other minority group. What few Asians are allowed on TV and in movies are almost always in small supporting roles, portraying mild-mannered doctors or scientists. Though those aren't necessarily negative stereotypes, they are stereotypes nonetheless. Where are the Asian panhandlers? Where is the goofy Asian neighbor or the Asian construction worker? These things don't exist on TV. And to this day, to my knowledge, only one Asian actor has ever had the lead role in a TV series: Sarah Cho on her short-lived sitcom.

Lately, a couple of shows have taken steps in the right direction. "Dexter" has two completely non-stereotypical Asian characters. Very refreshing. And of course "Grey's Anatomy" has a prominent Asian character.

Back to "Fantasia": Maybe what they should do is make the objectionable scenes hidden Easter eggs that integrate them into the movie via seamless branching.

 

[Arild]

My understanding is that this was always removed in earlier home video releases of the movie, but they just plain forgot it on 1999 reissue which was then promptly recalled.

 

[Rachel Bowman]

Because the history of the United States of America and our ideals and those of established overseas countries are different things.

America fought a civil war over slavery -- the aftermath of that war shaped America irrevocably. Are you serious, asking why overseas countries didn't protest this American film dealing with American stereotypes? Do you really expect people in Finland to have the same reaction to the issues as people in Michigan?

C'mon, sir.

 

[Timothy E]

Song of the South has been released in its original format on laserdisc in Japan and China. There is validity to the observation that cultural differences create a different attitude about the Civil War and/or civil rights in those nations than in America. That does not mean we should censor or edit historical art.

If Disney offers Fantasia in its original form on DVD and Blu-Ray, any attendant controversy, if it occurred, would be quickly forgotten, just like the airing of D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation on Turner Classic Movies.

There are cherubs of different races all serving Bacchus. When frames of film are panned in a manner to exclude the black cherub in Fantasia and include only the white cherubs, is that discriminatory? What makes a black cherub offensive when a white cherub is not? The black and white cherubs serve Bacchus because he is a Greek god, not because of their color, otherwise only one color or the other would be serving Bacchus, not both.

 

[MatthewA]

Many of the centaurs are not exactly "white." They come in all colors.

 

[SilverWook]

The point I was trying to make is an uncut release in Europe gets Disney off the hook with potential protests here. Those groups won't care if people can buy it over there.
Those of us who really really want it will be able to get it, even if it means dealing with all that region code nonsense.

 

[Fritz Nilsen]

I would prefer the next release of Fantastia to be uncut, Walt's change of heart is immaterial to me. Even if that doesn't come to pass, I'll buy it either way.

I would really appreciate it if they included the 1981 Kostal digital re-recording of the score as an optional soundtrack. I don't believe it has ever appeared on home video.

 

[Tim Gerdes]

While I believe it is valid to discuss whether or not an unedited version of Fantasia deserves a home video release, I think it is disingenuous to suggest that cherubs and centaurs painted in a variety of pastel colors is no different than a black centaur which is clearly modeled after a cartoon pickaninny.

Reinserting racist imagery into a decades-old film for historical preservation is one thing. Suggesting the material isn't really racist at all is another matter entirely.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

I too would love to see the unedited version released - have the edited as the default, but allow people to choose to watch the original if they so choose, even if they have to include a Treasure-style introduction to that version.

Do you know, that would be a great inclusion.

 

[Brian W.]

Well, Edwin, I saw "Song of the South" as a kid and didn't come away with a single negative impression of African-Americans. Different film we're talking about, but same subject.

 

[Patrick McCart]

Someone had a 16mm print of a Disneyland episode with the entire unedited Pastoral segment in color, so the video has the 16mm patched in when necessary. Great quality, too.

Here's that reconstruction of the original scene.

YouTube - Fantasia - The Pastoral Symphony - UNCUT

And the DVD version for reference:

YouTube - Fantazja (Fantasia) 10/15

If you wish to skip to the restored parts on the first video...

1:00-1:05 - Sunflower shining hooves
(DVD version: Zoomed to upper right 1/4 of image, grainy)

2:12-2:23 - Sunflower adding flowers to centaur's tail, then catching up to the rest
(I think the first shot is simply missing on the DVD, second has a slow zoom-in)

2:56-3:06 - Sunflower following centaur around
(Heavily zoomed in, very poor image quality on DVD)

7:57 - Sunflower rolls up carpet, stays behind Baccus's throne
(DVD has Sunflower digitally removed, with amateurish repainting to make the carpet go up by itself. She is painted out of the frame, but a faint "ghosting" can be seen where they pasted the background over)

8:10 - Sunflower just in background. The DVD has some laughably bad Photoshop "clone stamp" work. As seen in a GIF image I posted before, Sunflower is in front of Baccuus's wine cup for a few frames and replaced with poor quality "redrawn" animation.

 

[TonyD]

the youtube link already appeared in post 66.

I really don't get why this is viewd as racist.
there is nothing there to me that is meant to be hurtful or insulting to anyone.
Isn't it just an unfortunate product of the time?

I do think that the image is startling to see now and I sure wish it would
be released to home video for those that want it.

how about 2 versions on separate releases, one edited and one not edited

there has to be a way to put this out un edited.

ugh i sure wish making a post wouldn't take so long to go through

 

[Peter Rohlfs]

Though clearly a hands on producer, Walt Disney was not the writer, director or animator of Fantasia. The work of the other participants should be respected.

Just like pressure was put on George Lucas to make the theatrical version of Star Wars available, and Speilberg for ET, it is appropriate for a home theater forum to pressure the Disney company to release all of their movies in the original theatrical version (at least as an option on the disc).

One option could be to do an expensive multidisc box set with extra materials and all cuts of Fantasia on Bluray (like Blade Runner) for mature audiences (with appropriate package warnings), and a single version Bluray (with the zoom and whatever digital fixing their PC hearts desire) for the general public.

Peter Rohlfs

 

[Rachel Bowman]

 

[MBrousseau]

Originally Posted by MatthewLouwrens

Do you know, that would be a great inclusion.
I, too, am dreaming of an alternative soundtrack choice for a future Blu-ray release of Fantasia. The Irwing Kostal re-recording may have been criticized at some time but it was sounding so great! First of all, it should have been included in the last DVD edition of Fantasia but it never made it. I would be so happy to have the digital recording of Kostal on the Blu-ray because the original Stokowsky sounds terrible on today's audio equipment. I think everyone should be happy with a release containing both musical renditions. Pick the one you prefer!