David Beckham: I don't get it (1 Viewer)

[Andy_Bu]

[edit]Whoops - I answered this question orginally thinking you were asking about american soccer teams, not american football teams, sorry about that. Scott's answer below is the correct one

Andy

 

[Andy_Bu]

When he came through the US with Real Madrid last year, he was treated somewhere between a rock star and a god every where he went. When he came to Salt Lake City, it was a surreal event.

His signing by MLS was featured on the front cover (not the sports section but the front cover) of over 79 American newspapers.

The MLS season ticket sales have been nothing short of fantastic since the announcement.

Shows like Good Morning America have already done interviews with him.

I am not sure why you think that the US Public won't care about him when all indications are that they do.

I think the better question is how long will they care. My guess is that if Beckham is the only big name signed, then it will be short lived. If however he is followed up by other names (Zidance, Ronaldo, Figo etc), then his affect might be a little more long term. One guy is not going to do it all.

Andy

 

[MarkHastings]

Soccer is very similar to hockey, but hockey does seem to have enough breaks in the action to allow for commercial breaks.

 

[Andy_Bu]

Most of those breaks are forced and kill the action (especially if you watch hockey live). Hockey never had anywhere near the amount of breaks/commercials 30 years ago that it has today

Soccer could have a ton of breaks as well (the balls goes out side line and end line, injuries etc), but that would destroy the sport IMO.

One of the things I like about watching soccer on TV is the lack of commercials. It may keep the TV contract rights fees down, but its something I am willing to live with.

Andy

 

[Scott Merryfield]

There are a lot of little league, called Pop Warner, American football leagues for younger kids, but there are not a lot of "club" football leagues for adults here. Kids will play Pop Warner until high school. From high school on up, though, it's pretty much the domain of schools (high school and college), plus the pro teams.

I'm not sure why -- maybe because it's such a physically demanding sport with a high risk of injury?

 

[Andy_Bu]

One thing that is taking off in my area is the NFL sponsored two hand touch league for kids. The growth has been phenomenal and I bet it will start to take kids away from soccer and baseball (the two youth sports kings right now).


Andy

 

[Jon Martin]

Soccer fans care about him. But, there aren't a lot of professional soccer fans in the U.S.

And as mentioned, that huge salary had the most to do with the headlines for the deal.

Beckham is huge in the world of soccer, but the U.S. doesn't care about soccer. I'd probably say 80% of the U.S. public wouldn't know who he is. If I were to ask all of my friends, I can safely guess none would know who he is.

I knew who he was, but didn't even know there was an MLS team in L.A. The only team I have ever heard of was the New England Revolution, and are they even still around?

I'm not saying that as a slam against soccer, as I wish it would catch on.

As for the future, after the Women's World Cup, with Brandy Chastain and Mia Hamm, there was all the talk that it would finally catch on. And, it really hasn't. I don't think Beckham could save it. I hope so but, like women's basketball which is big in my area, the country really isn't interested.

 

[Andy_Bu]

I am confused? What is Beckham saving MLS from?

Is it from the billionaires who have bought into MLS the past couple of years?
Is it from the soccer stadiums being built all over the country? (Columbus, LA, Dallas, Chicago, Toronto, Denver, NY etc)
Is it from the huge sponsorship deals, like the $150M adidas deal signed last year?
Is it from pulling a ton of money from broadcasters like ESPN, Fox, Univision and HDNet, the longest and lucrative of which last 8 years?

That statement makes no sense me considering all these things happened BEFORE anyone even talked about Becks in MLS.

If you want to amend the statement that you don't think that Beckham will help the league grow, I won't argue since thats an opinion. But saying that he is here to "save MLS", just shows a lack of knowledge of what has been happening in MLS these past few years.

Andy

 

[Blu]

Eventually to see a return on all of these investments they are going to have to get sold out stadiums and more fans in the seats which is something that hasn't happened up until this point.

The TV contracts will go away if there are no ratings or if no one wants to fork over the dough to sponsor commercial free games.

I believe that is the major point. Everyone seems confused at how much money is being invested into something that is so niche and really isn't a major sport in the USA. Compared to every league except for the WNBA there are relatively few fans.

I think I read where the average attendance per game was around 15,000 people. Which is a quarter of the Superdome's capacity I believe. But the NFL has a billion dollar TV contract and the ratings to back it up.

While all of these companies and team owners are investing a ton into the sport eventually they are going to have to have sold out season tickets and lots of shoes sold to even get back a small fraction of the money spent.

While earlier I stated that for the league to really catch on there needs to be a home grown soccer star, it seems that there is a ton of debt to support and the pressure put on such a star would be immense.

To me it adds up to a unstable league and a very risky investment for the bottom liners.

 

[Andy_Bu]

Not even close. I don't mean to be harsh, but you don't seem to have a grasp of MLS finances in the least.

1) First off MLS does not make a dime on shoe sales, that money goes to the individual player as stipulated in the union contract.
2) Every soccer stadium built and up and running is already turning a profit AT THE CURRENT ATTENDANCE levels
3) Expansion fees (of which Toronto paid close to $25M goes right into MLS pockets. There are currently 7 or more cities right now vying for a spot in MLS.
4) MLS team values (the ones with out stadiums) have grown from $5M to the $33M Victor McFarland just paid for DC United, netting the DC United seller as MASSIVE profit.

I am getting tired of this conversation. I feel like I am working hard and providing data and all everyone keeps arguing with is opinions with no data or facts to back them up.

Feel free to have the last word, its obvious the information I am trying to provide is falling on deaf ears :frowning:

Andy

 

[Jon Martin]

Exactly what Blu said.

It may have the investors, the stadiums, and TV deals, but all that will go away if the public doesn't show up. The Beckham deal may have increased awareness in the short term, but for the teams that don't have Beckham, is it really going to do much late in the season?

I read Sports Illustrated, used to play soccer, lived in a big soccer town growing up, but Beckham and Pele are honestly the only (male) soccer players I can name. Like I said, I didn't even know L.A. had an MLS team and can't name another. And I'm not one of those who make fun of the sport, I would actually watch it instead of a football or baseball game.

I hope it does well, but seeing how the ABL folded, and the WNBA is doing poorly, I don't think the public wants to accept another pro sport.

 

[Blu]

No reason to get snippy man, you are a soccer fan and very knowledgeable about the sport.

However you are also in a very small minority as a soccer fan. Defend the sport just realize that a lot of people who don't get or don't want to get the sport don't understand the appeal and are more interested in the Hollywood side of Beckham, if Tomkat is going to convert him to scientology, and the size of his contract than soccer.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

But as Andy said they already have a strong and growing fan base...beck's arrival will only help but even if he hadn't arrived the league was doing just fine. It may never surpass the NHL or NBA in popularity but it doesn't seem to be hurting at its current levels and IMO there's likely significant room for expansion both in Canada and the US esp. in area's with large populations of European immigrants (see Toronto)

 

[Holadem]

One seldom mentioned factor standing in the way of the MLS popularity is the often terrible choice of name for the teams. New England Revolution? Columbus Crew? Houston Dynamo? Chicago Fire?! I struggle to take such dumb names seriously. At best, they just don't sound like football/soccer teams.

DC United, FC Dallas and Toronto FC are more like it, in the style of European clubs, which is a connection the MLS should be striving to make.

I attended the FC Barcelona exhibition game against the NY Red Bulls back in August. The 80000+ seats Giant Stadium was sold out. The interest is there, for the right occasions.

--
H

 

[andrew markworthy]

Nah, not weird enough. How about Hamilton Academicals, Sheffield Wednesday, West Bromwich Albion or Aston Villa?

 

[Yee-Ming]

Young Boys Berne, Boca Juniors, Newell's Old Boys, Internazionale/Internacional (i.e. International), Nacional (i.e. National), Corinthians, Preston North End, Kidderminster Harriers, Rushden & Diamonds, Forest Green Rovers, Northwich Victoria, Blyth Spartans, Gainsborough Trinity, Total Network Solutions (seriously!)

And my favourite: Arsenal (the only English League club (ie. excluding amateurs) not named after a place).

 

[Andy_Bu]

Great ones!

And of the all time classics, Joe Public from T&T.

And Bermuda's very first club team picked an interesting name, Bermuda Hogs (should be interesting to see how selfish that team is )

Lets face it, depending on anyone particular case, there are dumb sounding names in every league of the world.

Andy

 

[Andy_Bu]

Hi Yee,

Your knowledge of the english league seems stronger than mine. I love this piece of trivia and has made my mind whirl!

I was thinking through the teams and the only one that I could come up with that I did not understand was Crystal Palace. I seem to remember reading that it was named after a building, but I could be wrong. Is there a location in England called either Crystal or Palace?

And are Fulham and Chelsea considered towns or more like sections of London?

Thanks for any help you can give,

Andy

 

[Scott Merryfield]

$30M is not much money for a professional sports team, especially one located in the largest U.S. market. An NHL team in a small market would sell for more than that, and hockey is really more of a regional (as opposed to national) sport in popularity. The NY Rangers are probably worth about $150M-$200M.

That's also where I see the MLS's best chance for success, too -- in certain regional markets that have enough interest in the sport to support a team. The NHL has tried to force-feed hockey on certain parts of the country that have little interest in the sport, and it's not having much success. They are just now starting to adjust their financial structure to deal with this -- revenue sharing, salary caps, etc. to get expenses more in line with revenues.

Meanwhile, this huge contract Beckham has signed could end up doing more harm than good if it leads to more overspending that cannot be supported by revenues generated by a smaller league. This has happened before -- see the NASL and USFL.

 

[Andy_Bu]

The "contract" is actually nickels and dimes for AEG. This is what most people fail to realize. The vast vast vast majority of the contract is being paid by sponsors, jersey sales, an option to buy an MLS club when he is done and such, not from MLS pockets.

I think too many people got hooked into the $250M, and assumed that was going to $50M in salary per year. Its not. Depending upon which report you believe, his salary will range any where from $6M to $10M per year. Its still a hefty chunk but no where near the $50M a year people think MLS is spending on him.

Its hard for me to see this deal not working (assuming he doesn't blow out a knee on day one, or end up being caught beating Posh over the head with a frying pan).

But I do agree with you 100% that MLS has to take this next phase of their development very carefully.

They spent 11 years getting their financial footing, infrastructure, and expenses under firm control. During their next phase (roughly 8 years based on the new TV deal) they need to make careful and specific improvement to the product. It will be interesting to see how they do.

Considering that I was on boards just like this one in the late 90's where people were utterly convinced that MLS would not see the year 2000, I am more than happy to know that MLS will be here for a long time still in the future.

I should know by now after discussing MLS with so many people, that facts will never override opinions. The best I can do is help to provide the data and hope that people will have open minds and want to discuss the data instead of just throwing out random opinions (I am not saying you are doing this Scott, just a comment in general).

Andy