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"Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29 (1 Viewer)

Will_B

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Paul Hillenbrand said:
Would this kind of comment be removed here?
Paul
Only if it was not backed up by reasoned discussion of the qualities that led the poster to his or her opinion. I.e., HTF doesn't tolerate bching or baiting, but it does allow discussion.
 

RobertR

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Perhaps it's a bit premature to describe this transfer as a failed effort. Screen grabs are notoriously unreliable.
These days it's better to wait for comments from people who have seen the transfer, are FULLY aware of the DNR/EE issue and what it looks like, AND have the large screen high end equipment to show such problems. I would say DVD Beaver doesn't meet the criteria.
 

Dave H

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Paul Hillenbrand said:
I agree. Also, the size of the screen needs to be mentioned.
If this movie does have DNR or missing high frequency information, I hope the HTF will allow the posting of such information and not censor the posts.
Already on blu-ray.com's "insider" thread, Michel_Hafner's July 19, 2008 12:16:24 PM PDT post has been removed.
Would this kind of comment be removed here?
Paul
I saw his comment was removed too. This is getting disturbing.
 

RobertR

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Originally Posted by RobertR
I would say DVD Beaver doesn't meet the criteria.
Whatever makes you say that? The DVD Beaver review does not make any mention whatsoever about EE or excessive DNR or whether it was applied at all, to excess or not at all...
I'm saying that the DVD Beaver site doesn't show the same awareness of the issue that other people do.
 

TonyD

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closest Beaver gets to mentioning anything was,...
"Viewers with higher-end systems may also note how limited the digital noise [is] in the Blu-ray. The old single-layered SD was fraught with these artifacts as there are so many dark, low lit, scenes in the film."
 

Dave Mack

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From AVS, for what it's worth. Mouseovers show direct comparisons between broadcast 1080i and the BD...
msgohan;14326607 said:
[/url]
Seems the overall lack of detail is down to the master, but the BD adds color+contrast tweaking, DNR, and EE. Look at the wall screen-left of the guy in 4 (can't recall names at the moment). Surely VC-1 should replicate this better than the MPEG-2, and it does in many places. But there are some tiles clearly intact on the 1080i that are destroyed on the BD.
 

Dave Mack

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Hiya Tony! Sure.
Blu-ray, HD-DVD & HD Broadcasts(H.264 & MPEG-2) Screenshots*BIG FILES* - Page 66 - AVS Forum
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif
 

Will_B

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When I roll over those images, a better image appears, with more detail and texture. Is that what I am supposed to be seeing?
 

Jim_K

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Dunno, I just can't get all worked up over jpeg screengrabs, digital camera still shots of paused displays :rolleyes:or the usual chorus of noise from a bunch of AVS screengrab worshipers who haven't even sampled the disc themselves. Sorry if this comes across as snarky but basing ones final judgment on a still-shot posted by someone else on an internet messageboard seems a bit idiotic to me.
BTW - I've seen nothing in those DVDBeaver shots that would prompt me to cancel my pre-order, do I need a 1080p computer monitor to see how horrible these still shots are or do I just need to visit an optometrist? Not that I put much trust in screengrabs in the first place.
As usual I'll reserve judgment until I've seen this on my own display.
 

TonyD

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thanks buddy.
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif

the thing i see in #4 is the lines of the tiles seem to disappear in few areas on the br version.
 

RobertR

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Jim_K said:
I just can't get all worked up over jpeg screengrabs, digital camera still shots of paused displays :rolleyes:or the usual chorus of noise from a bunch of AVS screengrab worshipers who haven't even sampled the disc themselves. Sorry if this comes across as snarky
Yes it does. Why the rant again screen grabs? Sure, they don't tell the whole story, but your post comes across as saying they aren't a useful tool as a basis for comparison and discussion, ESPECIALLY the direct grabs (NOT "digital camera still shots of paused displays") posted by people such as Xylon. Such a contention by you simply isn't true. Posts by people who HAVE seen titles such as Patton, The Longest Day, etc. prove that a good screen grab IS an accurate reflection of what people see on their systems, whether you acknowledge it or not.
 

RickER

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The one thing i know, is the first release was great in 98. Now it looks like s**t on my 50" Tosh plasma, and my 52" Sony LCD . The Blu-ray has to be better than the 98 release. I am also not a fan of still pictures on my computer. Even though i can see whats going on in those pics, i will also have to see it on my TV.
Side note to Dave Mack...i hate to bring it up again, but i can see the writing better in the Dracula Blu-ray better now on my Sony LCD. Its not perfect, but its better than how it looks on my plasma.
And that brings me to how different each display can be. I have no doubt some of these movies really look good, or bad on a 105" display. But you get down to 50", and plasma vs. LCD (with moving pictures!) and its a different game. Of course i also agree Blu-ray should always look like film, on as many different screen sizes as technology will allow.
 

Jim_K

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RobertR said:
Which is it? An "accurate reflection" or "they don't tell the whole story"? I love it when people contradict themselves especially in the same paragraph.
and my "rant against screengrabs" stems from my frustration with the lemming mentality that prevails on a lot of messageboards. People jumping on the bandwagon and parroting other opinions who are unable or unwilling to form their own.
Now for anyone looking for some meaningful feedback on PQ, there's so much noise from people basing their opinions on screengrabs, who haven't even sampled the disc that it's going to be almost impossible to glean any first hand intelligent info from threads like these. Such is the internet I guess.
 

TravisR

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By no means am I an expert but when I saw screengrabs of Gangs Of New York (for example), I could easily see the problem. With Dark City, I'm not seeing a problem.

EDIT: I agree with Jim K. It seems like there are people who are now looking for the DNR boogeyman to appear on every release. It seems like every review thread now has the paniced "Is there DNR?!!!!!!!!!!!" post.
 

Carlo_M

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I too see an improvement from the 1080i to BD examples from DVD Beaver. I have nothing against screengrabs and I like DVD Beaver's site.
That said, people judging on their computers from the grabs need to be aware that your viewing device may also be affecting how you see the grab. As mine certainly is (Macbook Pro 2.33). I agree with Travis who said it was quite obvious on GoNY what the problem was. And while no doubt there may be issues on Dark City, it's certainly not near GoNY territory.
I'm a huge Dark City fan so I'll be picking this up regardless. Been waiting way too long not to. But I can also call out sub-par transfers (Robocop, Stargate, and the original Fifth Element BDs are what come to mind) even if I love the film, so if I get the disc and see that the worries here are warranted, I'll certainly post again with my impressions.
 

RobertR

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People jumping on the bandwagon and parroting other opinions who are unable or unwilling to form their own.
"Parroting" isn't the point. Either the transfer is lacking detail that could and should be there or it isn't. Your opinion doesn't make the detail magically reappear, no matter how much you rant against those who point out it's missing.
 

Kris Z.

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RobertR said:
"Parroting" isn't the point. Either the transfer is lacking detail that could and should be there or it isn't. Your opinion doesn't make the detail magically reappear, no matter how much you rant against those who point out it's missing.
Agreed.
There are some of us who do care, do have the setup, and do have the knowledge and eye to see the difference between a good and a manipulated transfer. No doubt there's some bandwagon-jumping going on, but frankly I don't see how it's a bad thing, the more exposure this gets the better.
Yes, it might be annoying to those who don't care about DNR or old, poor-quality transfers, or having the best and most faithful image possible. But you know what else is annoying? People who say there's nothing wrong with it, it looks great, or that it's at least better than the DVD. HD and Blu-ray came along and promised perfection, and after waiting all this time and spending all this money I'm not going to sit here and settle for a product that might have been top quality a decade ago.
Also, proper framegrabs are generally a perfectly fine way to point out faults like this. They're only deemed worthless by the people who don't know what they're looking at and don't know how to analyze them, and seem to more often than not be the same ones who never see any problems when other people do.
 

Jim_K

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Either the transfer is lacking detail that could and should be there or it isn't. Your opinion doesn't make the detail magically reappear, no matter how much you rant against those who point out it's missing.
I have no "opinion" on the detail of Dark City. How could I? I don't have the disc in hand and haven't played it on my display so me having an "opinion" on the detail of DC would be idiotic.
I assume you've sampled the disc yourself right?
BTW - I've yet to see any "missing detail" from any BD screengrabs I've seen. What exactly is missing when you're watching this on your display? and where is an alternate (non-BD) screengrab that shows this "missing detail" which is so obvious to you?
 

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