Curious about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? Well wait until you hear about HVD... (1 Viewer)

[Nils Luehrmann]

David makes a very good point. One thing I have seen looking at DVD sales figures is that there is a very noticeable drop-off in sales from one season to the next. Even for shows as popular as The Simpsons who have been getting spectacular DVD treatments. Where this trend is far more easily noticeable is with TV series on DVD that are void of any special features. "Season One" DVDs sell very well, but quickly taper off.

One thing we can be sure of is that if there is a profit to be made, the studios will try to find it. If they discover that by selling an entire series on DVD for under $100 sells many times more than pricing it at $1,000 resulting in greater profits, then they will sell them at $100.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

From Lucas Mearian at Computerworld:

 

[Scott Simonian]

I love this technology. But it looks like it is going the way of Duke Nukem Forever...

..."When will it be out?"

"When it's done."

So, another year?

 

[Aaron_Brez]

This one's for Nils:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/11/14/in...ial/index.html

 

[David (C)]

Holographic storage and Super Hi Vision, oh my

 

[Sean Aaron]

I could see upgrading to this format from DVD if only because the materials involved appear to be highly resistant to oxidation and have better archival value than existing optical formats. I've decided to give Blu-Ray and HD-DVD a pass, but this sounds like a much better format.

Now, the question I have is why continue to produce rotational media? Unless it offers faster access times, I'd just as soon eliminate as many moving parts as possible and limit the movement to relocation of the readers. Not having to spin media at high RPMs would really extend the life of the hardware.

Lastly, this not only could put-paid to the current crop of solid-state storage and optical media formats, but also could spell the final death knell of the hard-disk (at least in consumer devices).

And here I was ready to get off the technology train and become a grumpy old man before my time. I'm starting to have my doubts that I'll ever see all of Law and Order out on DVD...I could easily see an HVD format getting the whole thing on one disc before they finish the DVD releases...

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Sean,

I'm totally with you in principle...the idea of stable-mediums like holographic optical storage are ideal for all the reasons you state (I always think to Morbeus playing the Krell music from that tiny crystal in Forbidden Planet).

But, holding off on Blu-ray? As far as hi-def *movies* are concerned...you'll only be able to buy your HD movies on whatever format the stuidos decide to release them on. If they release them on 5" rotating discs read by blue laser picking up reflected light...and the studios don't embrace holographic media for consumer media for the next 20 years...does the fact that you'll have holographic storage in your PC change this? Are you saying that you'll *continue* to buy standard-definition 5" reflective rotational media but not *high defintion* 5" reflective rotational media until years from now when movies come out on some future holographic form?

 

[Sean Aaron]

David,

Pretty much. There are a few things that make me shy about upgrading to hi-def:

1. Cost of hardware. If I'm going to get a new TV, it'll have to have good enough line resolution to double as a computer monitor, so that means dvi input, which seems pretty hard to come by for some reason on many LCD and plasma sets. The line resolution of something over 1024x768 (the minimum as far as I'm concerned) is likewise not that common. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the majority of flat-panel TVs seem like a pretty poor value and are banking on people being wowed by how well they display standard-def TV, but interconnects are often inferior to what you can get on a CRT for half the price, and resolution isn't that big an improvement. At £2000 it would take me about five years to save for a new set; unless my existing one dies soon the price will have to come down for me to transition sooner.

2. Increased fragility of media. It's been well-publicised that the blue laser, using a smaller wavelength to accomplish increased data storage, means that there is less tolerance for errors. Now I know that TDK came up with some magical disc surface coating to reduce scratching, but I'm equally concerned with having to get the kit serviced more frequently because of lens calibration issues, which happened with my old Sony DVP-S500D within a few months of purchase back in '97 (or was it '98?). It may be proven false, but it definitely means I'm not as eager to jump in early as I was with the original format which seemed like a can't-miss proposition.

3. Just don't see the need. I've got a lot of films, and they look nice on my non-flat-panel £400 widescreen CRT. Most of the demos I see in the shops frankly do not impress -- even the HD ones. Sure the picture is super-duper, but contrary to the hype they are not photorealistic. Extras aren't too relevant to me, so the only thing that would really get me into the game would be things like entire seasons of TV series on one or two discs, and that would also have to be a lot cheaper than current releases, say £10. I've just got other priorities in my life right now. If it wasn't for TV sets, I'd maybe buy two or three DVDs a year and that's only because older, rubbish editions are being replaced with much better ones (sometimes). I've just gotten tired of the must-have-latest-technological-wonder/toy/crap consumerism. Saving money to travel is a lot more interesting to me.

 

[Ray Chuang]

Folks,

I think HVD will not be a consumer format anytime soon because it will be vastly more expensive than HD-DVD or Blu-Ray drives for some time to come.

But there is one place where it can be useful: the playback storage format for theater digital projectors. So instead of having to send a bank of hard drives for each projector, all you need is one HVD disc of about 1 TB storage capacity held in a protective caddy. Just the savings in shipping costs per copy to the theaters would a huge, to say the least.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Somewhat related to the last comment and in regards to a pic I saw in an article on The Register about HVD, I do hope this format does support cartridge loading even after reaching consumer level. I can see opposition from people who like carosels, or want to be able to play multiple disc formats, but the fact is that one of the things that made MD so great was the lack of issues re: fingerprints, dust, etc. in playback. You pop in the disc and it plays (barring more serious hw issues).

It would definitely make rentals a lot more enjoyable and reduce issues relating to playback problems in the upcoming blue-laser formats. I really don't get the reticence about this. I'd prefer to sacrifice playback of other formats if it meant less stopping a film and turning a light on to check for dust, and wiping the disc on my shirt because it started breaking up in the middle of a scene.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Sean,

the ultimate would be an *optional* caddy...so that you by the BD disc and it comes in a caddy...but then you can take it out to pop in your BD changer. Win-win!

 

[Daniel_TS]

Blu-ray / HD DVD managed copy files could be stored on a HVD disc.

 

[Sean Aaron]

David,

No problem with optional caddies; it's just that when caddies become optional, players that use them disappear in short order.

 

[Marko Berg]

Who needs a carousel player anyway when a single disc has a 200GB ... 1TB capacity?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Caddy compatibility would have to be part of the player-spec for it to optional-caddies to work...

 

[ChristopherDAC]

As I see it, the weak point of the holographic schemes is two-dimensional readout. I have a copy of a technical paper from Zenith which expresses it with clarity: the conventional optical disc succeeds precisely because it is a signal-based [one-dimensional] system rather than an image-based [two-dimensional] system. EVR, Holotape, the i/oMetrics videodisc: all of these were image-based [Fourier holograms are still images, albeit transformed or synthetic images]. The phonograph record, magnetic tape, magnetic disc, the LaserDisc family: all are signal-based.

It may be that the immense progress in solid-state imaging devices over the past thiry years will make this technology practical for the home; but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[DavidofLondon]

Reading all this stuff about the "imminent" arrival of HVD leaves me wondering if anyone reading this has ever bought a PC.

Assuming you've got funds and are interested you go to your local shop, review all the brands and buy the latest, fastest, best capacity machine money can buy.

For the next month or so every advert you see will still be describing machines with similar specs to yours as the best around.

But then ...

Faster machines with better capacity come out. Before long machines with specs like yours are heavily discounted. Within six months your machine looks like an antique.

The PC world is different from the media world. It doesn't matter if my latest machine is faster than yours (except to me and you). In the media world, however, if we want to watch the same film we need to use the same standard.

The question about HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, HVD isn't as simple as which is best, fastest, largest. It's which standard the industry wants to settle on.

There's no way they'll do a big advertising campaign for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD and then do another one a year later for HVD. Even if HVD is available then.

Once they settle on a standard they'll stick to it for at least five years before launching the next campaign. By that time anything available or being thought of at this point will be old. Maybe HVD will be at 4TB or maybe it will be outdated by something else.

Maybe they'll wait for HVD, but I doubt it. This isn't a technological decision its a marketing decision. With the companies on board and with things looking like Blu-Ray is winning the game things could become clear. If they do and they attempt to sell the "general public" on their choice then we'll be stuck with it. For several years.

They won't drop Blu-Ray in a year just because HVD is ready then, they'll be happy to wait.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Given that this is an online forum, except for those that choose to use only their company equipment exclusively or only use the internet from public libraries, internet cafes, etc., I’d imagine that pretty close to 100% of us have actually bought computer equipment.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

There is a great deal of news on both Optware's HVD and InPhase's HDS.

Foremost, expect to see both at this year's CES. In addition, Maxell will also have their new 300GB HDS discs for demo. They will be released later next year the same time InPhase releases their HDS Tapestry drives, ahead of earlier predictions.

There are numerous articles now coming out discussing the ever growing possibility that holographic drives will cause an expeditious demise of blue laser products, at least in regards to PC market share.

 

[Rob_HD]

Count me in for this one Very cool.

I'm thinking Managed Copy, from HD DVD or Bluray, over my network to these babies, when they become affordable!