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Criterion in September (1 Viewer)

Chris S

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But that's a contradiction. In one sense we have a very literal translation and then on the other hand, not. I think this all boils down to personal preference. I'm a huge fan of Japanese culture and these idiomatic phrases simply add to the enjoyment of the film for me.

But not to kid myself, I am buying this release unless something completely horrendous is noted in the next few weeks. I do trust Criterion did a good job but I won't be throwing out the older release right away. Heck I suppose my best option would be to finally start those Japanese language classes I keep putting off. :D
 

Peter Neski

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I Wish Criterion would do Bertolluccis "The Spider's Stratagem " This is
one of the greatest looking films of all time,and its a fine film,Im sure
bertollucci would do a Commentary if they asked
 

WilliamMcK

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Regarding the subtitles on the new Seven Samurai release:

They are indeed a revision of the Hoaglund translation used on the "touring prints." But the only revision I can immediately point to is replacing Hoaglund's use of "fuck" with "screw." Probably neither is an accurate translation (the old disc used "to Hell with"), but if you're going to tart up the dialogue you might as well go all the way.

I actually like the pace and smoothness of Hoaglund's titles; BUT I have one strong concern. She translates anachronistically, using slang that didn't exist in 1954. I'm sure her style of translation for Seven Samurai is based on the fact that Kurosawa's screenplay is deliberately anachronistic; however, while I don't expect Seven Samurai's subtitles to be true to the 16th century, I do expect them to be true to the film's own time.

Ironically, of all the Hoaglund translations I've experienced her best is for Throne of Blood (the one disc where we are given a choice of subtitles). This is probably because Kurosawa avoided obvious anachronisms as befitting the film's classical source--and Hoaglund followed suit. Her worst has to be The Lower Depths (violating Kurosawa, Gorky and 1957 international cinema). Fortunately her Seven Samurai is (with some occasional, if annoying, exceptions) one of her better translations. On balance, I think I prefer these new titles to the old Criterion translation (but I wish the new version had included both--and I intend to keep my old disc for future comparison).
 

PaulP

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The problem with subtitles is that Japanese is so radically different from English that all we can ever get is an approximation anyway.
 

Shawn.F

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I wish Criterion would do Bertolucci's "The Last Emperor". Hell, I wish ANYONE would put out a decent edition of the film (extended cut) in 16x9.
 

Adam_S

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except that they drastically toned down the swearing in the 1950s and subsequent translations, to not offend American mores.

after all, everyone knows that asians are elegant upstanding people who are never vulgar nor swear (unless it's mild). :rolleyes

They're good at math too. :D
 

Rich Malloy

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So I was the one who said that "if a character says "SHIT!" in Japanese, [Hoaglund] won't change it to "DARN!". But apparently Criterion will! ;)

As William notes, it's probably not that simple, and there is probably some question as to whether the Japanese vulgarity is better translated as the milder "screw" versus the harder "fuck". And, after all, Criterion did translate a "Fuck" (or is it "Motherfucker"?) in their DVD of "Andrei Rublev" - during "The Bell" sequence - that was either removed altogether or simply not translated in the Russian Cinema Counsel release.

Michael, do you recall if they kept Mifune's "piss-pants" comment in that scene when he chases off the village children who are after the rice reserves? That's one instance that I recal rankled a few feathers, even though for the life of me I don't understand why. Even if it's not a literal translation (which, again, does not mean a good translation - see, e.g., babelfish), it seems to fit the comic nature of that scene very well.
 

WilliamMcK

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The "piss-pants" translation is still used in the scene with Mifune and the kids. Can't say it bothers me all that much, except I've never heard the phrase before. I could have sworn that on the Hoaglund theatrical print the word/phrase used was piss-ants. Oh, and please don't think I walk around with memorized subtitles in my head--I just happened to have seen the latest theatrical print of Seven Samurai four times in the last four years.
 

Mark_Wilson

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The R2UK 2 disc SE includes an 16x9 version of the Extended Cut. I've seen one review that said it wasn't, but I own it and it is anamorphic.
 

Jeremy Little

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I'm gonna have to agree with you there. I watched the new Criterion release and while it is different and does use modern terms in certain areas, I don't find it distracting at all.
 

Nkosi

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So can I take it that people are satisfied with the new subs and most fears have been put to rest? I need feedback. Some unexpected money issues have forced me to put my purchase of the new DVD on hold for a couple of weeks. Bottom line do the subs pass the test or not? Thanks.
 

Chris S

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Nkosi, the short answer is "don't pass up this release!". Subtitle changes are much more subtle than perviously feared and, IMO don't interfere with the message/storyline/characters/etc in film.
 

Mark_Wilson

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I'm sure they just used what Fox gave them, much like the Buena Vista titles.

Anyone see the recent Brazil broadcast in HD?
 

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