Criterion in September (1 Viewer)

[Nkosi]

I made the "old fart" comment not to offend anyone.

It was just to show in a joking manner that I'm not some old stubborn cat adverse to change.

My point was to say that even someone in their 20s had an adverse reaction to this "modernizing" of the english subtitle translation for this "classic" movie.

I know there are numerous english subtitle translations for this movie. And I'm sure Ms. Hoaglund probably has a few herself. I just hope to goodness that what we get in September's release is not the version I saw last summer. That's all.

 

[PaulP]

As far as windowboxing, when watching on a 16:9 monitor, won't you have the image pillarboxed anyway? I don't see this as a big deal, as the side windowboxing will dissolve into the player-generated side bars. I like watching things with the black bars - it gives the material a more cinematic appearance, in my opinion. I just recently got a widescreen monitor and watching 4:3 material in a 16:9 frame is much more pleasant with the pillarboxing, than on a 4:3 with the image filling the screen. Maybe I'm just crazy, though - that's also possible...

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

From what I have heard, Linda Hoaglund's eccentric translation style has been toned down for this release.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

I'm worried about what is meant by "toned down".

I was very happy with the previous subtitles. I just don't like the sound of thsi at all, toned down or not.

Why not offer the option, since the previous subs are readily available, to please everyone?

 

[Nkosi]

I'm telling you the english subs to the version I saw last summer (done by Ms. Hoaglund) created a different movie from the one I love on Criterion's previous release of Seven Samurai. I'm not over-exaggerating. The difference was VERY clear. See my post #82 for more info.

Believe me when I say I have nothing against Ms. Hoaglund. I checked out her website and she seems very accomplished at what she does.

But in this instance regarding this DVD release I really hope "toned down" means extensively revised or completely different from the version I saw on the big screen last summer.

Nothing's going to keep me from buying this set. I can't wait because it looks absolutely knock your socks off awesome. But I do reserve some apprehensions on the english subs before I see it come September.

Here's hoping for the best.

 

[Elijah Sullivan]

Yikes. Seriously... how much storage does it take up to provide alternate subtitles? Can they use Linda Hoaglund's AND the previous translation?

The sample translation provided was an atrocity. My enthusiasm for this DVD -- which was a few moments ago through the roof -- is now in grave danger.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Haggai]

Who knows what their plans are for this release, but Criterion did provide two different English subtitle tracks for their Throne of Blood DVD.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

Maybe we should fire off a couple of emails and perhaps link them to this thread to let them know our sentiments?

It shouldn't be a big deal to include the previous subs...

 

[Yohan Pamudji]

A bit late to the party, but just wanted to join in the ecstatic celebrations regarding Brazil finally coming out in anamorphic. This is one of the few remaining movies that I've (painfully) refused to buy because of a non-anamorphic transfer (Young Frankenstein, anybody?). Great news, and good to see that Criterion do listen to their fans. Non-anamorphic Brazil is one of the very few blemishes on Criterion's stellar track record, and now they're making it right. Great stuff!

 

[Nkosi]

re: Seven Samurai english subs.

Criterion's website allows you to submit questions/ comments. Here is a copy of what I just submitted. I'll report if I hear anything back.
---------------

To Whom It May Concern:

The Criterion Collection stands at the vanguard of important classic and contemporary film preservation and presentation. This upcoming September’s highly anticipated special edition release of Akira Kurosawa’s Seven Samurai promises to fit right in line with Criterion’s renowned standard of excellence.

There are some concerns by fans over the new English subtitle translation being provided by Linda Hoaglund. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=236512

I, like many fans have come to view the English subtitles on Criterion’s previous release of Seven Samurai to be the standard telling of the epic. Linda Hoaglund is very accomplished at her craft. But as someone who has seen a translation by her for Seven Samurai, I can say that its language and interpretation is quite different than that of Criterion’s previous release of Seven Samurai.

What can fans of Criterion’s previous release of Seven Samurai expect with this new English subtitle translation? Do you plan on offering two alternate English subtitle translations (in this instance being the one from the previous release and the new one by Linda Hoaglund) as was the case for your Throne of Blood DVD?

September 5th, 2006 promises to be a stellar day for film and home theater enthusiasts thanks to Criterion’s release slate. As a long-time fan I want to thank the Criterion Collection for its continued efforts and brilliance.

I look forward to hearing from you. Take care and God bless.

Regards,

Nkosi Anderson

 

[Chris S]

Reading about Mrs Hoaglund's work in one of the previously mentioned articles was this nice quote


Wow! I have to say I'm a little more than shocked. I'll be submitting my comments via their website tonight. These types of revisions are not acceptable.

 

[Nkosi]

I concur.

 

[Peter Neski]

while the Brazil 16x9 looks great,but what if Universal does one in HD?

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

I don't think it's a "what if?" but a "when?" If there is a new transfer it is undoubtably HD, just like (just about) everything else that is being released in SD these days.

 

[Darrell Bratz]

Yes they are. It's what a skilled subtitler should do.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I've learned quite a bit about approaches to translation. When translating texts from one language into another very different language in particular, such as in this case, there are various aspects that could or should be taken into account. At one point, though, the translator has to make certain choices. Who's going to read the translation is an all-important question. The Hoaglund subtitles seem to be directed at the average American/Western-world moviegoer who is really into neither Japanese nor "classic" expression of culture. From that point of view, I'm sure the Hoaglund approach is adequate. I can easily understand why the "classic" translation seems more "right" to most of you "true" fans, though.

 

[PaulP]

It just has to feel like a classic Japanese film that it is.

 

[James_M]

I don't like subtitlers to take liberties with language translation. I always want a more literal translation. If there's a concept that needs explanation, they can subtitle a footnote explanation.

Taking liberties, changing words, and adjusting content to be more accesible for western audiences is like voice dubbing.

Although it is a western DVD release, this isn't a movie that was made for western audiences in the 21st century, it was made for japanese audiences in the 50's so I'd like to see it translated as close to this intention as possible. A classic is a classic. Why would an average western moviegoer who is really neither into Japanese or classic expression of culture want to watch a culturally classic Japanese movie? Audiences shouldn't buy an old Black and White Samurai movie with 21st century expectations.

 

[Brian PB]

You're joking, right? Footnotes in the subtitles? Fine if you're reading an annotated screenplay in book form, but impossible at 24 frames per second.

 

[James_M]

It's no joke, it's been done before. I think I've seen it on Zatoichi Meets the One Armed Swordsman. Besides, that's what the rewind button is for.