Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray? (1 Viewer)

[cafink]

I saw these movies in the theater when I was young, and as magical as they were at the time, I think nostalgia is blinding a lot of people as to the faults of the originals. For me, the original trilogy as it current stands is perfectly fine, and the changes also help to better blend it with the prequels. I have all six movies and I won't be rebuying any of them until they come out in a better format than Blu-ray.

I couldn't disagree more. Though I'd seen bits & pieces of the movies, the first time I sat down to watch Star Wars was the '97 Special Edition, so I have no particular nostalgia for the originals, but for my money, they are clearly better than any subsequent version. The various changes made to the movies range from innocuous to cringe-inducing, with only a handful registering as clear improvements in my opinion. The updates spoil the pacing of the movie (the "alert the star destroyer" scene in Empire), ruin the drama ("Noooo!" in Jedi), and just don't make a lot of sense in context (Han solo having almost the exact same conversation with both Greedo and Jabba). The changes may help the trilogy blend in better with the prequels, but that's is hardly an improvement to many fans of the originals, and it comes at the cost of incosistency within the films, which now have a distracting mix of '70s- and '80s-era effects work, and modern CGI.

I bought the '97 special editions when they were released on VHS, but I now have absolutely no interest in any release that does not include the originals. I waited for them on DVD (crummy as that release was), and I am perfectly content to do the same on Blu-ray.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

Disney did buy LucasFilm (it was in the press release). They do have Indiana Jones. They have ILM and Skywalker Sound. They HAD LucasArts Star Wars was the most disucssed, though, as it was announced concurrently that a set of movies were being made.

Yes.

And, Indiana Jones was talked about. The difference there is that Paramount is involved with that series - and with a totally different setup than Fox ever had with Star Wars.

But, even so, Disney has had the prior relationship with Paramount/Lucasfilm over Indiana Jones because of the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular over at Disney World.

Back to Fox and its distribution deal over Star Wars, I'm sure Disney could work something out with them. I remember reading years ago that Fox would love to release the original versions of the OT in new remastered editions (on DVD at the time), but that it was always up to Lucas. It's only a matter of giving them something to release, and they'll do it.

 

[TravisR]

^ Thanks for the clarification, guys. I'm quite knowledgeable about Star wars but had no clue that LFL had been sold.

 

[TonyD]

Okay, I've lost track. What is LFL?

 

[TravisR]

^ Lucasfilm Limited.

 

[JColl]

I think nostalgia is blinding a lot of people as to the faults of the originals. For me, the original trilogy as it current stands is perfectly fine, and the changes also help to better blend it with the prequels. form.

It's a classic film from decades ago, not a plate in a dinner set. It doesn't need to match or blend with anything.

 

[Cinescott]

That link is incorrect. Fox hasn't retained any rights of ownership to these films, because they never had ownership in the first place (apart from Episode IV, which they relinquished back to Lucasfilm around 1999). Lucasfilm own these films, and Disney own Lucasfilm.

How would Fox ever get ownership of Empire or Jedi when they were not involved in their production? Lucasfilm ponied up all the cash for those two, and had complete control. Fox distributed them, the rights to which they retain.

Thank You. There is so much misinformation on this topic that it's out of control.

Fox currently has distribution rights to the saga, not ownership, and I have a feeling even that may change in the relatively near future. Disney may presumably do as it pleases regarding video releases (barring any weird contractual agreement with Lucas) for all six movies. The catch is that Fox gets a piece of the distribution pie. No one actually believes Fox would try to bar Disney from doing any release, since that would literally be throwing away money. As has been mentioned, Fox has been more in the "let's release the unaltered version" camp than Lucas ever was, so they're probably happy as punch that ownership went over to Disney. Now they can make some money without a control freak at the helm.

 

[Persianimmortal]

It's a classic film from decades ago, not a plate in a dinner set. It doesn't need to match or blend with anything.

Witty comment. However, it's a series of films produced by George Lucas, which he specifically intended to blend together. Funny how Director intent suddenly goes out the window here on HTF when we discuss the Star Wars trilogy, because as we all know, it's cool to bash Lucas.

 

[FoxyMulder]

it's cool to bash Lucas.

Yeah like ten years ago, kinda uncool now, if you ask me.

 

[Worth]

Funny how Director intent suddenly goes out the window here on HTF when we discuss the Star Wars trilogy, because as we all know, it's cool to bash Lucas.

Friedkin got a lot of flak for what he did to the initial release of The French Connection, so it's not just a Lucas-bashing thing. More of a criticizing directors for making pointless changes decades after the fact kind of thing.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Friedkin got a lot of flak for what he did to the initial release of The French Connection, so it's not just a Lucas-bashing thing. More of a criticizing directors for making pointless changes decades after the fact kind of thing.

Ultimately, if we accept that the creator of a movie has artistic control over their content, then none of the changes are "pointless". They may not be to your taste, but artistically, I'm sure Lucas didn't make them just because he had some spare time and money. They are quite clearly aimed at fulfilling a certain vision he has in his head.

The real problem, in my opinion, is that the Star Wars trilogy has taken on a life of its own. Rather than being seen as a simple but effective and fun space fantasy, with cheesy dialog and straightforward acting performances, it's now become almost a religion. When Darth Vader yells "Nooooo!" in the new version, it doesn't bother me, because it fits in with the overall pulp fantasy theme of the movies. But for the faithful, it's sacrilege, because it's a change to what they see as serious sci-fi.

I've found over the years that my fondness for the Star Wars trilogy has greatly declined, not only because of the weaker prequels (which walk a muddled line between pseudo-serious "political intrigue" and outright childish nonsense like Jar Jar Binks), but because of the way the movies have become an entire industry unto themselves, with fans arguing endlessly over every little aspect of the films.

 

[Walter Kittel]

with fans arguing endlessly over every little aspect of the films.

Endless arguments and discussions are kind of the point of forums like the HTF, wouldn't you agree?

Like I said before, for me my respect is for the original films as they first appeared theatrically and less about any director's desire to re-tune a work after the fact. I generally like James Cameron's revised editions, but for most other filmmakers; not so much.


I meant to reply to WillG's post earlier:

When you look at the original trilogy, you had pretty simple plot lines at the core, characters you could easily identify with, characters that were initially at odds with each other, but worked together and developed believable friendships/romance (I never believed in the PT that Anakin and Obi-Wan even particularly liked each other, let alone being great friends), bits of humor that weren't forced, a strong/scary villain and while the acting was never great, all the performances were serviceable and I certainly don't recall any clunkers in the bunch. And it's those elements made the OT fun to watch. The PT did pretty much all of that wrong.

I could not agree more with this paragraph. Watching the original trilogy, one of the genuine pleasures of these films is the chemistry between the cast members. It provides a spark and a life to the films that the prequels, despite their technical prowess, simply cannot match. Nostalgia? Perhaps; but I know what I like and that is all that matters to me.

- Walter.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

It's a classic film from decades ago, not a plate in a dinner set. It doesn't need to match or blend with anything.

It does when it's a part of 6 and soon to be 9 films.

 

[Kevin EK]

Disney has had a long standing relationship with Lucas and Lucasfilm, going back 25 years to the opening of Star Tours at Disneyland. And there's the Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland as well. I see the recent acquisition of Lucasfilm as consistent with a fairly happy relationship they've had going all this time.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Endless arguments and discussions are kind of the point of forums like the HTF, wouldn't you agree?

Endless arguments are tedious and pointless. Well-informed and interesting discussions are what we're hopefully after on forums. People spewing forth tons of vitriol towards George Lucas for "destroying their childhood", and other such heavily skewed, near fanatical viewpoints on the Star Wars movies really don't deserve the amount of space they've been given on forums in my opinion.

I proffer that one of the key reasons why the Star Wars prequels came out so poorly is precisely because Lucas made the mistake of listening too much to the diverse fan base. As I mentioned in my previous post, the prequels are a mish-mash of very serious, bordering on tedious, storyline elements like the Senate intrigue, and the turning of Anakin to the dark side; and very frivolous, almost banally childish elements, like Jar Jar and the increasingly moronic antics of R2D2 and C3PO. Why? Because Lucas was trying to cater to both sides of fandom as he saw it: the adults who had grown up with Star Wars, who said they wanted serious space drama, and the new generation of kids whom Lucas thought would be thrilled at the clownish bumbling.

In fact, from what I've seen, the changes based on fan feedback started as of Empire Strikes Back. Some of the changes were positive, some were negative. But ultimately, I think the fans hold every bit as much responsibility for the path Star Wars has taken as Lucas does. To quote the famous car designer Chuck Jordan "A good designer doesn’t need Mr. and Mrs. Zilch from Kansas telling him what to do." Similarly, as a filmmaker Lucas should have stuck to his original vision, for better or worse, instead of being so heavily influenced by what he thought the fans wanted.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I proffer that one of the key reasons why the Star Wars prequels came out so poorly is precisely because Lucas made the mistake of listening too much to the diverse fan base. As I mentioned in my previous post, the prequels are a mish-mash of very serious, bordering on tedious, storyline elements

You forgot to add....in your opinion....i enjoyed the prequels immensely.

 

[TravisR]

Disney has had a long standing relationship with Lucas and Lucasfilm, going back 25 years to the opening of Star Tours at Disneyland. And there's the Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland as well. I see the recent acquisition of Lucasfilm as consistent with a fairly happy relationship they've had going all this time.

What I love about Disney getting Star Wars is that it guarantees that movies that I love will be seen and enjoyed by other people for decades to come.

 

[EnricoE]

let's just say this...

even if mr. lucas truly destroyed the original negatives in favor for all the s.e. of the trilogy, it doesn't mean the original versions are lost. there are mint 35mm release prints available. these could be used to release the movies on blu-ray, if nothing else is available.

but on the other hand, i don't think mr. lucas really destroyed them. lucasfilm as kept every single frame of their movies. so it wouldn't make sense to just trash the negatives. besides, the 1993 thx laserdisc was done from a extensive restoration of the negatives. this process can be seen in the special features on the definitive laserdisc boxset. from these restored negatives the laserdisc master was struck.

but the state of the whole thing is only known to mr. lucas and probably now disney and if there will ever be official high-def releases of the original uncut, uncensored and untouched trilogy.

 

[SilverWook]

"Disney WOULD!" "Disney SHOULD!" "Disney COULD!"
Here's a thought: How about if Disney CAN"T?
(No, really, is that the whole defense for the rumor, that "Somebody big and new owns it now, so maybe we can ask them!"?)

I know this theory has been brought up many, many times. But let's think logically...Forensically, if you will. Let's profile some rather odd behavior on George Lucas's part over the last five or ten years:
- Responding to pressure to release the UOT, he releases the Limited Edition DVD's, mastered from the old 80's laserdisks...80's, as in made before 1997. Fans ask why he could be so "stingy" as to release upgraded LD sources, and they don't believe him when he says they were "the best sources still available". (They think he's just holding out, or greedy, so he can release the real one later.)
- Later on, Lucas becomes rather disgruntled with the fans. He calls them hard to satisfy, as they keep, quote, "asking for something he can't give them anymore".
- Finally, after years of stonewalling the fan questions, Lucas settles the arguments by petulantly stating "They're MY movies, not yours, and it's the director who has the final say on the edits!" The SE's will stay because he said so, that's why.

Now...I consider myself a fairly good judge of human nature, and not overly suspicious or given to wild conspiracy theories.
I just find it amusing, that's all, that there is one line even the angriest, most disgruntled Lucas-hating fan will ever cross:
They complain about his "ruining" the saga with the prequels. They complain about his redubbing and reinserting SFX into the Special Editions. They call him "incompetent" and "gone looney", and all such hyperbolic terms.
But the minute...the MINUTE...you raise the idea of "What if 'looney, incompetent, film-mangling' George really was 'stupid enough to' permanently destroy the unaltered originals?", watch the loyalty come out: "He wouldn't do that! He's an artist and a genius! He knows the value of these! He's too smart to compromise his vision, he's never do anything so stupid as that! He's got so much money and technology, he's sure to have them in an air-conditioned underground bunker at Skywalker Ranch, preserved in perpetuity until the time his greedy remarketing decides to release them again...Maybe in time for Episode VII!"

(They NEVER cross that line. Something always stops them. They just can't do it.)

That line has been crossed repeatedly at OT.com over the years.

 

[SilverWook]

If this ever does come to pass, I'd finally buy SW on blu. As it is, I haven't bought them since they are not the movies I want. No double dipping the blu-rays here since there hasn't been the initial dip in the first place.

I do have them on DVD, but it's the re-issue set with the OOTs on the second disc. At least I could watch those and not have to swap out several CAV laserdiscs per movie from my Definitive Edition LD Box set. (My LD player is double-sided, but not multi-disc - which, of course, they never had). And, it is the OOTs I play when the mood strikes me - I think I've played the special editions only once since I've had them.

There was a player that could hold two LD's and play all four sides.

http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_ld-w1/pioneer_ld-w1.htm