Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray? (1 Viewer)

[Kevin EK]

I'm still hoping that someone who went to Comic Con will post about how the Lucasfilm reps directly answered this question.

My instincts say that the Reliance listing was about work that had been done toward the 3D conversions that stopped after Disney acquired Lucasfilm. I don't believe this was a current matter. I think they took the listing down after being told to do so by Lucasfilm or after simply being embarrassed by all the brouhaha over it.

I still believe we'll see the original cuts of the trilogy in HD, but it won't be for at least another 18 months. I'd be happy to be wrong on that one.

 

[Worth]

Another article on the preservation of the "original" originals:

http://www.soundonsight.org/a-new-new-hope-film-preservation-and-the-problem-with-star-wars/

However, according to Michael Kaminski of Save Star Wars, the NFR has never possessed a copy of the print. Following an anonymous email tip from a film restorationist, Kaminski travelled to the Library of Congress to examine the NFR’s copy of Star Wars himself. He was told by librarian Zoran Sinobad that “while both Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are on the National Film Registry, the Library has not yet acquired new prints of either one. When the request was made for Star Wars, Lucasfilm offered us the Special Edition version.”

 

[Lord Dalek]

So in other words.... they probably really ARE gone.

 

[Kevin EK]

I think the elements do exist. That Senator screening of Star Wars shows that someone does have a decent print that could be scanned, in a worst case scenario. And that's a private collector. I expect that Lucasfilm has preserved whatever elements exist of all of the Star Wars movies. Some of this is for archival purposes, some of it is in case Lucas ever wishes to revisit anything.

The issue remains that Lucas has clearly stated that he wants the special editions to replace the original versions in the public consciousness. For better or worse, he's happier with the more current versions, where he's had the opportunity to tinker with the things that bothered him and where he feels the movies are closer to his intentions. So I still don't believe we'll see the Lawrence of Arabia style 4K restoration of the original cuts that some fans really want. But I do believe that we could see the original cuts each get a simple HD scan and wind up included in new single-movie releases in another couple of years. When this happens, it won't be a secret. Lucasfilm and Disney will make that part of the marketing, as a way to get the fans to buy the movies on Blu-ray One More Time...

And as I understand it, nobody asked the Lucasfilm reps at Comic Con any questions about Reliance - partly due to the Lucasfilm booth being staffed most of the time by licensees hawking their own Star Wars products. Of course, someone could email Lucasfilm and directly ask them that way, but my instincts say this would be met with a boiler plate response that would reveal nothing.

 

[Wayne_j]

The story that I heard was that Lucasfilm borrowed the print from the NFR and then refused to return it, but offered the SE.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

All I know is that Star Wars was in the first batch of films added to the National Film Registry in 1989, long before the creation of the Special Edition. And that was when the copyright was still owned by Fox.

Whether or not Lucasfilm was interested in preserving the original versions, I can't imagine Disney not wanting to have decent copies stored in the archives, even if they don't do anything with them.

 

[Kevin EK]

I'm sure Lucasfilm is quite interested in preserving everything they can, with or without Disney. And I agree that it's a different matter to make items in those archives available to the public.

As for the NFR, I believe the movie titles were added, but the actual copies of the movies were not - at least not immediately. If I'm reading that account correctly, the clerk at NFR was saying that they had never received prints of Star Wars or Empire, and that when they asked Lucasfilm for them, they were offered the SE versions.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

It took them over 8 years to ask for a print of one of the films on the inaugural list? At any rate, like you said, there are surely preservable elements out there.

My position on this is the same as it has been for years. I don't feel like I'm "owed" anything, and I'm not demanding anything. I just think it would be nice if these three pop culture landmarks were available to view in decent HD presentations, in the versions that became pop culture landmarks. This is fairly common practice for other classic films with multiple versions, particularly when the differences between the versions are so significant. (Obviously, there are exceptions.)

 

[Kevin EK]

Bryan, we agree on this. In the same way that we can see the various iterations of Blade Runner, and the Donner Superman movies, I'd be happy to see the original cuts included, even as bonus material. Ridley Scott did include the workprint of Blade Runner, in as good condition as they could get it, although he added his introductory note that this is by no means his preferred cut of the movie.

As for the NFR not getting the prints within 8 years, I'm actually not surprised at that one. Having dealt with bureaucracy too many times, I could see those guys waiting 10-20 years to actually get the prints within their doors. Not saying that that's a good thing by any means. I just can't imagine why Lucasfilm would need to borrow a print back when they already have plenty of archival material on the original cuts, including other prints.

 

[Dave H]

I think that they removed it from their site is the weirdest thing of all. If it wasn't secret, why take it down? If it was secret, why did anyone in a position of authority in the company think it would be cool to put it up in the first place?

Not to mention a Reliance employee had "Star Wars 4K Blu-ray" release listed on her resume which was on the Reilance web site and the work was dated after 2011 (when the initial Blu release came out).

Obviously new work has been done on Star Wars for a new transfer. Whether this is the original and/or 97 SE and/or latest version and/or something else all remains to be seen. At some point though whichever variant of the originals needed to be addressed for technical modernization (4K) and superior viewing experience. The current scans are over 10 years old and really show especially on a big screen. It's a damn shame with so many classics on Blu having been restored at this level of excellence, yet not Star Wars (shaking my head).

A new Blu release (probably after a limited IMAX/theatrical run of sorts) next year in prep for the new movie in Dec 2015 only makes sense.

 

[Kevin EK]

The thing is, we don't know that Reliance actually did much work on anything. The other movies shown on the same page (before Reliance removed that image) included things like the James Bond restorations from the mid-2000s. And we don't know that Reliance isn't just showing the initial work they did to present a bid to Lucasfilm for the 3D conversions. This is why I was really hoping someone attending Comic Con this year would go to the Lucasfilm booth, find someone with some knowledge of what the company is doing, and ask the specific questions about this issue.

I agree that we're likely to see a new Blu-ray release to help promote JJ Abrams' movie, either in late 2015 or spring 2016. My expectation is that the new release will simply be a repressing of the 2011 discs, this time in separate packaging for each movie. I think we'll see the 2011 Blus as the primary disc in the box, and then a new 2015/2016 disc with additional bonus features, hopefully containing an HD transfer of the earlier cut of the respective movie. If Disney decides to invest in new 4K scans and/or a 4K transfer (a la Lawrence, which was actually scanned at 8K), that would obviously be of the cuts George Lucas has repeatedly stated are the correct versions.

Again, if someone here has a contact at Lucasfilm, it's worth it to ask the question. Otherwise, I can't imagine hearing anything until at least next summer, and potentially later.

 

[johnSM]

Could this perhaps be a hint that something is in the works?...https://mobile.twitter.com/ThatChrisA/status/494203545831223296/photo/1

 

[Dave H]

The thing is, we don't know that Reliance actually did much work on anything. The other movies shown on the same page (before Reliance removed that image) included things like the James Bond restorations from the mid-2000s. And we don't know that Reliance isn't just showing the initial work they did to present a bid to Lucasfilm for the 3D conversions. This is why I was really hoping someone attending Comic Con this year would go to the Lucasfilm booth, find someone with some knowledge of what the company is doing, and ask the specific questions about this issue.

I agree that we're likely to see a new Blu-ray release to help promote JJ Abrams' movie, either in late 2015 or spring 2016. My expectation is that the new release will simply be a repressing of the 2011 discs, this time in separate packaging for each movie. I think we'll see the 2011 Blus as the primary disc in the box, and then a new 2015/2016 disc with additional bonus features, hopefully containing an HD transfer of the earlier cut of the respective movie. If Disney decides to invest in new 4K scans and/or a 4K transfer (a la Lawrence, which was actually scanned at 8K), that would obviously be of the cuts George Lucas has repeatedly stated are the correct versions.

Again, if someone here has a contact at Lucasfilm, it's worth it to ask the question. Otherwise, I can't imagine hearing anything until at least next summer, and potentially later.

I find it odd a Reliance employee claimed to have worked on Star Wars 4K Blu-ray releases. I am not sure why she would post that if it were not true as it disappeared about the same time as the Star Wars images on their site. It's pretty obvious this stuff was published before it was supposed to be.

I don't think the 2011 releases will be recycled any longer especially with Disney. Fox already released these three times total anyway.

I think a new Blu release/scans would come before the new movie, not after. A theatrical re-release is also almost a given. They did this even with Raiders a couple of years ago...Back to The Future, etc.

 

[hanshotfirst1138]

No announcement at Comic-Con about this, X-Files, True Lies, or The Abyss. Basically nothing I was hoping for. I'd bet that whomever Disney sent probably don't know themselves, on the off chance that they are planning on doing this, they probably want to hold off until there's concrete information to keep the already wildfire rumor mill down. Like I said, I've been burned so badly, I'm reticent to get my hopes up. On the slim chance they are doing a restoration, I'd bet it's of the Lucas version, doubt they'd spend the cash on a 4K scan of the original elements even if they could .

 

[Kevin EK]

I agree with Mike - even if there were a 4K project contemplated for Star Wars, it would be used for the most current editions of the movies.

I also find it odd that the Reliance material was posted. And maybe it indicates something could be in the offing for sometime in late 2015 or 2016. I still remember reading accounts of people working on further adjustments to the special editions of Star Wars around 2001, which we found out more about in 2004. But I also have a feeling that this could simply be someone posting about what was a much smaller idea than it may seem. For example, someone could have worked for a week or two on tests or demos of a potential Blu-ray project. Or someone could have been working on the beginnings of a project, like the 3D conversions, that was either stopped or wound up as an internal project at Lucasfilm. It would still be legitimate to say that Reliance/Lowry worked on this, but it might not mean much.

All that said, I still believe fans may see the original versions of these movies in HD. As I've said, I don't think they'll be large-scale restorations. But they'll be a definite step above the laserdisc ports that wound up on the bonus discs in 2006. At the very least, people will be able to watch the movies in a condition closer to the way they saw them in theaters back in the day. If and when that happens, I'll be happy to pick up those releases.

 

[Dave H]

I suppose it could be a situation like Blade Runner.

Only "The Final Cut" was from 4K where as the other versions (branch seamed) were from 2K sources which were still at a high quality.

I think most of us could live with that.

On the other hand, while it would take some work, I wonder if a 4K scan of the SE could in essence be copied for most of the original version - adding in/replacing pieces where necessary with other sources. With digital technology today, could that be possible? You might have some areas look a bit softer, of course, but most of the movie could be of the same quality as the SE.

I think it would be very interesting if they just restored the originals and left everything else behind although I agree it is probably less likely, but you never know.

 

[gizzy2000]

I highly doubt that the Star Wars Trilogy will ever be released again without the unaltered versions included (not saying we're getting a huge restoration), but Disney knows that not including the real films is just senselessly excluding potential customers, not to mention they need a new feature to justify a re-release, and I can't imagine a better gimmick than the inclusion of the original unaltered films in a not terrible laserdisc format. I also am not sure that Disney is going to so adamantly stick to the 2011 versions; the recent blu rays were by far the most criticized release of the Special Editions. Remember, not including the real films will be commented on in all reviews of their blu ray release, even big media sites commented on the exclusion of the original films in 2011. I think a lot of people, not just Star Wars fans, are getting really tired of only being able to buy the Special Editions. Remember, Disney is run by real businessmen, not George Lucas, and they actually care about their reputation and want to sell as much as possible, and they know that they will be put in the spotlight if they continue to hold back the original films.

 

[FoxyMulder]

not to mention they need a new feature to justify a re-release,

You mean like Warner or Fox with their re-releases, yeah they need a new feature it's called Star Wars Episode VII, a tie in.

Laserdisc doesn't cut it for blu ray and how many sales did Fox lose last time around by not including the original unaltered theatrical trilogy, i'll tell you how many, thirty or forty sales at most, that last boxset made hundreds of millions of dollars.

Disney care about their reputation, really, you think so, they care so much that they continue to release de-grained animated classics with altered colours on blu ray rather than preserve the original cinematic look, i think Walt is turning in his cryogenic chamber right about now, i seriously doubt Disney care about the unaltered originals, that is not to say we won't get them at some point but i think they care more about the new franchise and merchandising and all of the money which will soon be pouring in.

 

[gizzy2000]

I know laserdisc doesn't cut it, it didn't cut it in 2006 and that's why they need to release it in something better than a horrible laserdisc transfer. Yes, they made tons of money with the last release, but they could make more (i'm not saying a whole lot) if they did release the unaltered films. My point is they have no reason to never release the original films. Lucas only held them back because he wanted to erase them from history. Saying there isn't a market for the Unaltered trilogy is ridiculous. Star Wars fans are notorious for buying the same movies over and over again. It won't just be purists who hate the Special Edition who would buy these. Also, Fox would've included the original versions years ago if Lucas had let them.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I know laserdisc doesn't cut it, it didn't cut it in 2006 and that's why they need to release it in something better than a horrible laserdisc transfer. Yes, they made tons of money with the last release, but they could make more (i'm not saying a whole lot) if they did release the unaltered films. My point is they have no reason to never release the original films. Lucas only held them back because he wanted to erase them from history. Saying there isn't a market for the Unaltered trilogy is ridiculous. Star Wars fans are notorious for buying the same movies over and over again. It won't just be purists who hate the Special Edition who would buy these. Also, Fox would've included the original versions years ago if Lucas had let them.

If George Lucas really wanted to erase the original unaltered versions from history he would never have allowed them to go out as additional extra's on that dvd release, the fact he let them go out means he is not trying to erase history, he just cares more for his special editions, i would bet that Disney will release them at some point and just like Kevin says i believe minimal work will be done to get them out the door. I do think the market is very small for the unaltered versions and people will complain about matte lines and lightsaber colours and the audio not being so good, it is a niche market but sure i'd like to see them come out.