Consumer Silence (1 Viewer)

[Jay_B!]

gee, defensive much? I'm actually on your side that some people are way too big of stick-in-the-muds with the unwavering "not even for free would I enjoy 23 complete MTM episodes that haven't aired in completion since 1971 because a 24th is missing 10 seconds that hasn't been seen since 1970 anyways" stance. Did you bother looking at the site in question? Sony got very cheap with Dawson season 3, and cheaper throughout the rest of the run (although they did have No Doubt songs in season 6, because the episode revolved going to their concert) and from the looks of it, no, they didn't try. There are many other shows that cost LESS that have MORE of the original music on it. It's not even like we're talking Zeppelin/Beatles style artists whose music was replaced on these sets, we're talking Nada Surf types, acts that really can't cost THAT much to negotiate a deal with using their songs, but Sony still didn't bother and just went with musical replacement. They edited out scenes in an episode because they didn't want to pay to have Joey performing Jesses Girl and (I think) Walk Like An Egyptian. That is much much different than Fox deciding to skip negotiating with the band Filter because in one Roswell episode, you can faintly hear "Take A Picture" in the background of the restaurant, yet not there on the DVD.

 

[JoshRas]

Im sure this has been said, I have read many of the posts but with many my eyes just glaze over...

My opinion, the studios couldnt have really imagined how big tv on dvd would become so licensing all these songs wasnt even on the radar. Today, I am sure all TV shows take into account music rights when the shows are produced.

I would have a problem if a studio isnt up front and states it on the package. If they do state it, whats the issue? You can buy it or not. If its a big deal to you, dont buy it. If they waited to put it on the market, or not at all-you still wouldnt have it. So either way-no dvd.


But a majority of the public doesnt care if some music(from what I have gathered usually isnt a significant amount) is not there. Nor would they probably realize it if it wasnt pointed out.

How many people would pay $150 a season for say, The Wonder Years, if it meant having the original music. Not a lot. But a lot more people would pay $40 for some slightly altered music-although not preferred

 

[MatthewA]

Actually, the MTM episode "Christmas and the Hard Luck Kid" was uncut on the old MTM Home Video VHS tape which I still have. The song was there, as was Mary's response to it.

 

[Cees Alons]

It's probably a problem that will go away.
Previous contracts for song rights often didn't legally ("to the letter") cover a release on DVD, but I'm sure current contracts always do.


Cees

 

[Shaw]

I think that maybe what is happening in many cases is that the studios are in a rush to get the product to market. More time really needs to be spent negotiating for music like the Beatles. I personally think it only fair that there be going rate for music wether its the Beatles of the Bay City Rollers.

The main point is that fans are not a part of this legal process. Not that we have to be in the room during negotiations, but that would be preferable.

A letter campaign aimed at the Copyright Holders is probably the best tact. It should not be made to demonise the studios or the copyright holders. It should in fact let the copyright holders know how important their contribution to popular culture is if they allow their music to be used for a reasonable fee.

If it is the Beatles or Zeppelin, I get the impression that they don't need the money and don't want to be bothered. What they need then is a better reason I think than money. They need to know that fans of the TV Shows are also fans of their music and that their involvement with a given show is positive, profitable and worthwhile.

As fans we need to agree on how to deal with this whole issue. And we also deserve a chance to be a part of this decision. After all, we do buy the product.

Also, attacks are the worst thing. On each other and on the studios or whoever. I can see that clearly now. You always catch more flies with honey.

Shawn

 

[Scott_F_S]

What possible evidence do you have that it is in the best interest of studios and rights holders to come up with a compromise? Are you in the business and an expert in investing strategies? And how does it blow up in their faces?

 

[Malcolm R]

This is probably what bugs me the most about this type of issue. When a show was previously released complete and intact, yet the subsequent release is bungled.

Apparently they were able to clear the rights/access the full prints the first time. What is so hard about doing it again?

 

[RoryR]

How does not releasing something help anybody?

Studio has no more money.
Fans have nothing to watch/buy.
George Kaplan's ego gets bigger.

Sounds like a LOOSE-LOOSE-LOOSE situation to me.

I fail to see how not releasing the DVD will make anything better, the Music Rights won't magically come within price range because Fox chose not to release something.

The rights changed hands?

Lets not forget the rights won't stay with the same person for ever.

 

[Mark Y]

I was vaguely aware of some Mary Tyler Moore episodes having been released on VHS years ago, but I am not sure how long ago it was. However, I have observed this: Prior to a few years ago, when DVD really started taking off as a popular format, and studios started releasing season sets of all kinds of shows, there really wasn't a whole lot of TV on video. There might be a handful of VHS tapes released on this or that show, with someone's picks of the half-dozen best episodes or so. (I'm thinking Jack Benny, Brady Bunch, Three's Company, etc., but 10 years ago or so.) If you were into sci-fi, you were in luck, because the fan base was enough to support series like Star Trek, Twilight Zone and others being released on video, in their entirety or close to it. As far as non-Sci-Fi shows, a few classics like The Honeymooners and I Love Lucy were popular enough to get released in full, or at least more than a sampler. (Then there are things like Roots, Monty Python, well, we could be here all day naming this or that show, but apart from Columbia House, whole runs of TV series were not being done en masse.)

At that time, I don't think the whole music clearance issue was as big of a thing, because compared to recent blockbuster movies, old TV shows being released on DVD (or VHS or whatever format) were only a blip on the radar. I don't think people got too concerned about that stuff then. I remember occasionally seeing a theatrical movie released on VHS with a small disclaimer on the back saying a song or two was different from the theatrical release version, but it was only after the TV on DVD market exploded that copyright owners and lawyers really pounced on this issue because there was a lot of money to be made from it. I'm not saying the issue hasn't always existed, but it's a lot more well known now. It's very possible that the Mary Tyler Moore episode could have been released back then, and it would have been considered so far "under the radar" that nobody paid much attention. (Even if someone could have had some royalties rightfully due them, they probably had other concerns which were a much higher priority than a license for one song on a cheap VHS release of an old TV show.) MTM (as I recall) was not a show generally known for its use of other people's copyrighted music (unlike, say, WKRP, which probably would have gotten more attention from the owners and their lawyers). No one probably gave it a second thought back then. Now, it's a different story, and lawyers have to go over everything with a fine-toothed comb. Even the chopped-up syndicated SCTV reruns were re-chopped in the last several years, with segments punched in from different episodes to replace skits with clearance issues. From what I have read, this was done pretty much wholesale on the advice of lawyers. More thought and more negotiation (or some negotiation at all) evidently was done for the DVD releases.

Once something goes mainstream, in a lot of ways, the party's over.

 

[Mark Y]

Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but due to some fluke, Paul McCartney actually does own the publishing on two (2) Beatles songs ("Love Me Do" and "P.S. I Love You") but I think that's it. The rest belong to Michael Jackson. (Someone else may know more about this than I do; I also don't know or remember exactly *how* McCartney ended up with those two.)

 

[Cees Alons]

Michael Jackson recently sold the rights of the Beatle's songs he owned, if I'm not mistaken.


Cees

 

[Bryan^H]

IS there anything we can do to stop the syndicated cut releases on dvd?

The answer to that would be NO.

I have to say the "ALL OR NOTHING" purists have to be the minority, and wouldn't make a difference if they bought the dvd or not. Please don't argue this point, because I know that I'm right.
All the arguments over this subject may be fun, and healthy debate, but thats about as far as is goes. The genearal public tv on dvd buying crowd would never boycott a release because of some alterations. If they like the show, then they will buy it. It's just that simple.

I don't like syndicated releases, but I also have the capacity of understanding, to know If it's released that way, that's all your gonna get.
My Highway To Heaven season 1 is a syndicated release. Do I think it will ever be released uncut? Absolutely not. It's a miracle it got released at all.

Scenario 1:
Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I love the show, but checking out the alterations list it appears there were many cuts in the first 3 seasons. Darn, I already own those seasons on dvd, and had a great time watching them. It looks as though now I will have to ditch those sets, and wait for the uncut versions to be released.

Scenario 2:
Oh well, so it has cuts. I still enjoyed it, and plan to watch it again soon.

Now which scenario seems to be more rational?
So once again debating this issue may be healthy, and fun, but remember in the end it's the studio that makes the call, not us.

 

[Shaw]

I think for us to feel that our position is weak and we have no say at all is not true. We are the consumers, after all. Certainly the majority are not interested in this issue.

However to say that the public cannot influence or have a positive impact is not always true. A fine example of fans controlling the situation is the Moonlighting DVD Campaign. There hard work made it possible for Moonlighting to be released complete and uncut on DVD.

We have been convinced that we have no control and therefore it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Here is the very successful Mooonlighting Campaign:
http://www.moonlightingdvd.com/

Their campaign was successful because the studio actually worked along with the consumers. I have put together my own SCTV on DVD Campaign and hope that fans will participate.

SCTV on DVD Campaign
http://www.runstop.de/bennysplace/sctv/

We have nothing to lose by getting involved.

Shawn

 

[Mike Frezon]

Shaw:

Good luck on your efforts with SCTV.

 

[Shaw]

Thanks for the thumbs up! If you could pass my links around I would appreciate it.

Shawn

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Shaw, why not put it in your signature?

 

[Shaw]

Holy Tomatoes, you're right!

I'll add it right away. Thanks!

Shawn

 

[Shaw]

There it is. Thanks Mikah!

Shawn

 

[Jeff Willis]

Joe, IMO, that's the "winning" quote from this thread. I think all of us here want all TV/DVD releases to be uncut, unaltered in any way but that's just not reality 100% of the time. I think, on the whole. TV/DVD releases have improved. Perhaps I'm naïve, but I feel that way. I'd guess that all here have a preference on their priority regarding "cut" sets, ie would someone favor edited music vs video/scene cuts. Myself, I am interested first in whether a set is the original,uncut (video) ep as was orignally aired.

One example of a "take it or leave it" choice in my collection is one of my all-time favorite series from the 60's, "Combat!" . Most of the eps in Seasons 1-4 contain "Time-Compressed" eps. However, 1) It's difficult for me personally to hear the TC factor and 2) IMAGE did a great job with this set, menus, extras, etc. The big factor, to me, is that the set contains no (scene) cuts. So, the choice for me was, pass on the set because of the TC issue, or buy it. Easy choice for me. I've enjoyed this series very much.

While I agree that fan input can defintely impact a release positively. I won't necessarily pass on a given set if there are alterations from the originally-aired version. It depends on what has been altered/edited. if it's video/scene cuts, then it's a very tough sell for me.

 

[Bob Hug]

Jeff, you've captured my sentiments exactly on the "Combat!" release; the only noticeable time compression that I can hear is the opening/closing theme which does, to my ears, does sound slightly sped up. But, other than that, I didn't notice anything else. IMAGE, indeed, did do a great job with this series.