Consumer Silence (1 Viewer)

[Malcolm R]

That goes for a LOT of issues in the world today, far beyond TV-on-DVD. But these are the times we live in. As has been repeated several times, outside of a specific niche forum like HTF or another DVD site, the mass consumer doesn't care. And the mass consumer is where the studios make the bulk of their money, not the membership of HTF.

The studios claim they have "market research" to dictate every move they make. If they cared enough, they could certainly research what fans really want in a set or why an expected bestseller tanked (i.e. people refused to purchase due to music replacement/syndicated cuts).

I've repeatedly said that the studios continue to ignore the best source of information about any show...the fans. Nearly every show ever created has a fan club of some sort or website where fans congregate. All the studios have to do is communicate with some of these people and get their input (which would be gladly offered completely free of charge) before they lock down the set and they could avoid 99% of the unnecessary errors that affect many sets. But very seldom do they do this, then are seemingly caught completely by surprise at the outrage of fans when the shoddy sets hit the stores.

 

[RoryR]

But when they don't make any profit, how can they convince share holders and other people that ploughing money into it AGAIN is a good move?

Most of the time, the product isn't important. They'll move onto another show.

 

[george kaplan]

The problem Rory is that you think the reason that the studios woke up and fixed later seasons of Kung Fu, The Cosby Show, etc. is cause sales were good. I think it's cause sales were bad. There's no way to prove it one way or another, and I suspect I can't convince you that I'm right, cause I know sure as hell there's no way you could ever convince me that you're right.

The bottom line is, that regardless of the impact on future seasons or other shows, I'm proud to say that there are no abominations of MAR, music replacement or syndicated cuts in my collection.

 

[Bryan^H]

I had no idea Will and Grace used a lot of syndicated episodes for the dvd's. Kind of scary when even the newer shows are being released on dvd are butchered. I had planned on buying these at some point because they are so cheap.

I had a kind of neutral attitude on the syndication subject until a good friend of mine pointed out how much useful material was cut out of really good shows. Agian, I don't know what dvd's have cuts, and which don't. There should be a thread with all the cut shows on dvd, so we know what were up against before we buy it. I think that would be extremely helpful.

 

[Bryan^H]

I do own Kung Fu season 1 because I love the show, but why widescreen? Was WB seriously considering all the releases in WS? I mean talk about total disrepect for a classic tv show. There was no reason to release it in WS except to chop off the top, and bottom of the picture. It's one WS release I'm not happy about.

 

[James@R]

Agreed. I think if people are unhappy with a purchase, they should find a way to let the people in charge know. This way, perhaps it will be corrected in future releases.

The thing people seem to forget is that DVD is not the "end all, be all" format. Did anyone rant and rave 20 years ago if 30 seconds were missing on a VHS compilation? I doubt it. The real reason everyone gets so nitpicky today is because now we have the internet, and it makes us feel like our voices are really being heard.

Hey, I agree that if studios are going to release something, they should do everything they can to release the best possible product. But though it does bother me when a show is missing a scene or two, it doesn't stop me from buying the set.

For example, I bought the complete Sanford and Son sets, and a few episodes are edited.

And the truth is, even if the shows were complete, it's basically something that only I would know or be able to appreciate anyway. (Unless I went online and visited a forum.)

But I've already gotten many hours of enjoyment by sharing those edited versions with friends, family, etc. To me, that's a bigger return on my investment than if I were able to stare at a shelf of dvds and know that they are unedited.

 

[RoryR]

Lets say for Roseanne, 75% of the expected market bought it while 15% of the market was complaining. Sales were good enough to show demand and the lack of support and call for uncut episodes was large enough to show them that doing it right would keep those sales and get more - its a no brainer.
If a show sells 20% of the expected market, while 20% complained (lets face it, most people don't and probably didn't know) then the studios sees a small market and a few people who say they might buy it, it wouldn't be a convincing argument for continuing a show.

It is all about money and studios have to put a lot of money to just get a set out, unless they are sure there is a profit to be made then they won't do it.

The Roseanne situation is different, so it works against both of our points of view. Anchor Bay paid a large amount of money for the rights and invested in Season 1, if they stopped then they would have lost a lot of money and if they continued syndicated sets amid poor press they stood to loose a lot. Buena Vista wouldn't have much cost involved in releasing syndicated cuts of Dinosaurs, its unlikely a movement would catch on and we'd be left with cuts.

The studio is in control, not the consumer, they do have the product we want and for big studios, they have a large array of products for us to spend our money on.

 

[Johnny S]

See the "The Archive of Incomplete TV DVDs - Buyers Beware!" thread, stickied at the top of the TV DVD forum.

Here is the URL:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=188141

 

[Phyll]

I always wait and see before I buy tv on dvd sets now because I was so very upset about Season Five of the Golden Girls that I bought. There were scenes taken out that didn't have to be. What upset me the most about the whole deal is that that dvd set ended up costing $15 more than the other previous Golden Girls sets. What I would like to know is if someone has a number for Buena Vista that I can call to complain and then to ask if the next two sets will be edited. If they are than I can just keep my vhs tapes.
I will not buy them. When I am at the video store and I see someone buying an edited dvd set I let them know. Alot of people don't even know. If the consumers can make a difference I would like to know how. Maybe start buying stock in these companies and take over or what? We are getting totally ripped off. And I for one am getting tired of it. I am glad we have this forum so that we are able to find out about edited dvds now. Does anybody have any ideas? All I can say is that if there is a show you like on cable start taping because the way the dvd market is right now you are better off money wise and the music is intact at least. At least that is the way I see it.

 

[Mike*SC]

I have no idea what the story is on "Kung Fu," but I do know the story on "The Cosby Show," which also applies to "Roseanne" and "3rd Rock from the Sun" (all of which are Carsey-Werner titles), and sales (good or bad) had nothing to do with it. The person in charge of those releases was quite simply unaware that the cut versions initially released -- which were used because the legal department had signed off because all music was cleared -- were syndication cuts. When this was pointed out, this person located international release prints (which included the full episodes but occasionally included music substitutions) for subsequent seasons.

That's the honest-to-goodness story on those three shows. It's fairly mundane, I know, but the truth is often dull.

 

[David Von Pein]

Yeah ---

Stop whining about the 2% that is wrong with TV shows on DVD and start enjoying and appreciating the 98% that is definitely good and worthwhile about TV shows on DVD.

Has any man ever divorced his wife because she was only 98% perfect?

~strokes chin, pondering that one~

 

[Mark Talmadge]

Tell me about it, David. All the pissing that seems to go on let's just enjoy the fact that we do have these shows on DVD finally. Sure, it's hateful by the studios to release edited or syndicated versions of these shows but at least we have them.

It's doubtful that studios will release broadcast sets after they have released syndicated sets and while this may be true, buy the sets but after express displeasure at the studios by emailing them, sending them letter saying that this kind of practice is unacceptable.

I'd rather have syndicated episodes with original music then broadcasted epsiodes with edited or replaced music. Remember, you can't have it both ways .... HEH HEH ...

 

[David Von Pein]

I'm not understanding you here, Mark. The DVD studio would still have to fork over the greenbacks for the "original music", even if they released a syndicated version of an episode on DVD. Because it's still copyrighted music material that has to be acquired. Correct?

 

[george kaplan]

Assuming 75% is a magic number (and I'm certainly not conceding that, it could be much less), if a figure as low as 20% might kill future seasons, then a figure like 90% might eliminate any chance of a studio being motivated to do it right. Certainly there seems to be NO sales figure that's ever motivated a studio to redo the current season correctly.

Let's say, just for argument's sake, that a studio screws up season 1 of Show X, and that in order to continue the show, and fix it and do it right, they need to sell Y +/- e units. In that case, somebody has to buy the censored crap, and somebody has to not buy it. I'm perfectly happy in such a scenario letting you fork out your hard earned cash on a piece of garbage, while I keep my money, so that in the end we can both buy season 2 done right. In such a scenario, what I'm doing is just as important as what you're doing, it's just much easier since I keep my money, and my den doesn't stink from the garbage.

 

[Shaw]

Hi Guys,

I am beginning to see the light. A positive message is what is needed. I have made some very important revisions to my SCTV on DVD Campaign. The main thing being a positive message from fans that they see the music being used by copyright holders as "positve, profitable and worthwhile".

I would humbly ask that everyone look over my campaign with an open mind, as I know so many of you here have. I also want to know your opinions and suggestions. Indeed, a campaign like this could be put together for any show that is having problems.

SCTV on DVD Campaign
http://www.runstop.de/bennysplace/sctv/index.html

 

[Cees Alons]

There's at least one scenario I can think of, when we're harming our interests when protesting too loud to certain changes.

Just imagine this:
(1) A holder of copyrights to a piece of music used in a TV series, discovers that the previous terms of use don't cover a DVD release.
(2) This party now asks a price that's way too high for a release as the studio envisioned (including an intended MSRP).
(3) Negotiations are failing, and the studio threatens to drop the music and use another piece.
(4) The holder of the copyrights leaks this possibility to the market (us).
(5) We scream and shout. "No original music, no sale".
(6) The studio is forced to accept the terms (and increase the intended price) or drop the plans to release the show altogether.
(7) We're angry.

I think we shouldn't let them hear from us too much during negotiations (i.e. when the definite product isn't defined yet). I know that this seems like we're "too late" if things go wrong, but the alternative is: make absolutely sure we really know what's going on, not just presumptions.
Which might be very difficult.


Cees

 

[george kaplan]

I certainly wouldn't be angry in that scenario. Here's how I'd feel

(6) The studio is forced to accept the terms (and increase the intended price)
(7) I'm thrilled (a price increase is a small price to pay for getting a show I love done right)

(6) The studio drops the plans to release the show altogether
(7) I'm sad

(6) The studio employs music replacment
(7) NOW, I'm angry. I don't buy it, and it'll never come out right, so I'll never get to see a show I love, cause only a shadow of it is currently available, and the real thing never will be. I'm royally pissed.

 

[Shaw]

I think that we just need to relax a little bit and not worry too much. I think the best thing might be to just show them how much the audience wants the music replaced. I think more of them would have agreed.

I think they were probably upset with SCTV that the music was never cleared. That is certainly not going to sit well with some of them. A gentle approach however will give them less reason to be upset. If we present them with the attitude that we would appreciate any kind of reasonable deal they could make, then I think any copyright holder will probably be more forthcoming.

The main thing is to let the copyright holders know from fans directly in letters that are positive, perhaps even apologetic for what has happened, that we are offering them something they may not even be considering. That allowing their music to be used by SCTV is an opportunity for more exposure for their music. That fans will appreciate their generous gesture.

I think what has been happening all along are simple business transactions. If copyright holders don't need the money, then they may want a better reason. And I think those motivations could come from fans of SCTV.

http://www.runstop.de/bennysplace/sctv/index.html
threerandot

 

[Juan Books]

I agree consumers should not be accepting of mediocre products. Dishonesty should not be rewarded with a purchase.

 

[Shaw]

I have completely revised my SCTV on DVD Blog that is consistent with
the SCTV on DVD Campaign website.

Please check out the blog here:
http://sctvondvd.blogspot.com/


As well as the main Campaign Website:
http://www.runstop.de/bennysplace/sctv/


And there is the ezboard too:
http://p067.ezboard.com/bsctvondvdcampaign


thanks
Shawn