3D "Comin' at Ya!" 3-D Blu-Ray up for pre-order (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

I am working on a review of this title that should go up by Wednesday.

Let me just say that there are some really bad convergence issues here and I can't believe the restoration team didn't test these discs on different equipment before putting this into release. It's mostly unwatchable on my end. The gimmickry is absolutely ruined by the amount of ghosting.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I finally got to watch the movie during the HTF downtime. It was..uhh..interesting.

I noticed very little ghosting on my display, but I still found it to be very problematic to watch. I understand now what Mike was saying earlier about certain images being too difficult for the eye to fuse. Almost every scene was like a torture test to my brain. The depth looked pretty good at points, and some of the pop out was effective, but on the whole, I found it to be almost painful to watch. I can't think of any other 3D movie I've seen that actually made my eyes hurt. I ended up having to pause it several times throughout to give my eyes a rest.

As much as I appreciate the effort (both for making the film and then for getting it on disc), I can't imagine ever watching this again. It was just too uncomfortable.

 

[Douglas R]

I am working on a review of this title that should go up by Wednesday.

Let me just say that there are some really bad convergence issues here and I can't believe the restoration team didn't test these discs on different equipment before putting this into release. It's mostly unwatchable on my end. The gimmickry is absolutely ruined by the amount of ghosting.

I recall that even when shown theatrically, the 3D was very problematic so I assume the problem is inherent in the source material..

 

[John Maher_289910]

[ [/QUOTE]

I am working on a review of this title that should go up by Wednesday.

Let me just say that there are some really bad convergence issues here and I can't believe the restoration team didn't test these discs on different equipment before putting this into release. It's mostly unwatchable on my end. The gimmickry is absolutely ruined by the amount of ghosting.

There is simply no ghosting issue with this disc. If you have ghosting, it is your hardware. I've watched it, twice. No ghosting. No a single instance of it.

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

The gimmickry is absolutely ruined by the amount of ghosting.

There is simply no ghosting issue with this disc. If you have ghosting, it is your hardware. I've watched it, twice. No ghosting. No a single instance of it.

A strong native 3D movie like Comin' At Ya! needs the most efficient 3D technology available to consumers to completely resolve the extreme parallax positions allowing total fusion of each eye's view..

Anything less will produce noticeable deviations of the 3D illusion.

 

[Reed Grele]

I've already mentioned that some scenes can be a bit tough in the eye strain dept. Love it or hate it, that's the way it was filmed. It doesn't bother me all that much, really. No headaches, or other serious side effects. Maybe I'm not sensitive to that particular issue. But with DLP technology, ghosting isn't an issue with this pressing.

If anyone in CT (or nearby) that bought this, has a ghosting issue, and would like to see Comin' At Ya! on a huge screen, with NO ghosting, drop me a P.M.

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

Let me just say that there are some really bad convergence issues here and I can't believe the restoration team didn't test these discs on different equipment before putting this into release.

Ron, I believe the reason there are so many weak 3D movies in this era, is because 3D was "tested on different equipment" before putting 3D films into release. IMO, the majority of inefficient consumer displays dashed todays potentially-great 3D productions.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

[

There is simply no ghosting issue with this disc. If you have ghosting, it is your hardware. I've watched it, twice. No ghosting. No a single instance of it.[/QUOTE]

Totally wrong.

I have two top-of-the line display units. 200 Blu-ray discs. This is the only disc that has given me this much of a problem. I even looked at other forums for complaints -- and there were quite a few -- before responding to this message. To solely blame the equipment is ludicrous. I understand it plays fine on "some" equipment (mainly DLP), but there is something wrong with what was done with the conversion -- whether it was something that could have been avoided or not.

I would definitely argue that it's the source material before even c

 

[revgen]

Convergence issues are caused by the way the film was shot. Images are not going to fuse properly no matter what system you run it on. Whether it's film based setup or digital. However, improper convergence is not "ghosting" or "crosstalk".

Another 80's 3-D title, Amityville 3-D, also causes crosstalk on my plasma, yet looks fine with my DLP projector.

 

[Reed Grele]

The only 3D films that I can watch with minimal to no ghosting on my Panny plasmas, and LCD projectors are conversions with depth, but no "pop out", and real 3D films that were conservatively filmed with very little forward projection.

I am very sensitive to ghosting, and once I see it, I can't ignore it. It just drives me crazy! That's why DLP is my 3D nirvana. My sympathy goes out to anyone who watches Comin' At Ya! on any other technology, and has a bad experience.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Convergence issues are caused by the way the film was shot. Images are not going to fuse properly no matter what system you run it on. Whether it's film based setup or digital. However, improper convergence is not "ghosting" or "crosstalk".

Another 80's 3-D title, Amityville 3-D, also causes crosstalk on my plasma, yet looks fine with my DLP projector.

So, it's the way the film was shot is the likely culprit.

 

[revgen]

So, it's the way the film was shot is the likely culprit.

Correct.

Mike explains it better than I can. LINK

 

[Stephen_J_H]

So I bit the bullet and bought it. It should arrive on Friday, and I will post my comments after I have a gander. Not expecting miracles.

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

There is simply no ghosting issue with this disc. If you have ghosting, it is your hardware. I've watched it, twice. No ghosting. No a single instance of it.

Totally wrong.

I have two top-of-the line display units. 200 Blu-ray discs. This is the only disc that has given me this much of a problem. I even looked at other forums for complaints -- and there were quite a few -- before responding to this message. To solely blame the equipment is ludicrous. I understand it plays fine on "some" equipment (mainly DLP), but there is something wrong with what was done with the conversion -- whether it was something that could have been avoided or not.[/QUOTE]

So from what I gather we are now talking about "vertical offset convergence issues" that apparently play havoc on a good number of setups?
By no ones fault, the big problem here might be the terminology that describes what each one of us is actually seeing using different display technologies.

 

[Mike Ballew]

So from what I gather we are now talking about "vertical offset convergence issues" that apparently play havoc on a good number of setups?

By no ones fault, the big problem here might be the terminology that describes what each one of us is actually seeing using different display technologies.

The vertical parallax problem inherent to Optimax III is more apt to cause fusion problems than ghosting (aka crosstalk). Ghosting is usually attributable to high lateral parallax and high contrast. It has historically been the great bugbear of anaglyphic films and images, but it is always a potential problem in Polaroid presentations as well. Modern 3-D systems like Real D have made tremendous strides in reducing or eliminating ghosting, but it is certainly an ongoing effort.

I had occasion to speak to a friend of mine, Brian, about the difference between ghosting and fusion problems. He didn’t realize there was a difference. I explained that when ghosting occurs, it’s a problem that can be seen not only with both eyes working in tandem, but with each eye individually. If you close your left eye and still see a faint, residual trace of the left-eye image in your right eye, that’s ghosting. If you close your right eye and still see a faint, residual trace of the right-eye image in your left eye, that’s ghosting. On the other hand, if each individual eye sees a sharp, clear image, but doubling occurs when both eyes are used in tandem, that’s a fusion problem.

Fusion problems can be caused by poor choices in photography—too much parallax, for example, or vertical misalignment, or illumination disparities, or synchronization issues. (The list of potential causes goes on.) But fusion problems can also be indicative of eye fatigue or, in some cases, undiagnosed vision problems in the spectator. And, strange though it may seem, some people see double when watching a 3-D movie for the simple reason they are not used to using their two eyes as a concerted pair.

Going back to Optimax III, it is obvious that vertical parallax is still present even in this new Blu-Ray edition. I can give you two examples off the top of my head. The first is when Polk thrusts his sword into the camera moments before cutting Hart loose. The second occurs in the third act, when Abilene is tied to a post in the main street of the ghost town. A bit of tumbleweed or twig settles into place in the extreme lower foreground. In both cases, the left eye image rides higher onscreen than does the right.

During the opening credits sequence, when Hart lowers his pistol and fires right into the audience, I perceive that the restoration team has used digital techniques to “level out” the left and right images of the pistol itself. Elsewhere, they shift the alignment of the left and right images to “privilege” the spot where the spectator is most apt to be looking, leaving other points, typically in the background, vertically offset.

I have a hunch that Optimax III was redesigned by Panavision when they acquired it sometime in 1982. As evidence of this theory, I would first cite the fact that the unit depicted in production stills for Comin' At Ya! has a silver metallic appearance, while the unit shown in Panavision's promotional materials is black. Beyond that, the left lens in the Panavision unit rides higher than the right, but the definite clues in the imagery of Comin' At Ya! tell us without doubt that the left lens rode lower on that unit.

 

[pinknik]

That kind of blows my mind that the lenses are offset that much. Looks like everyone would have been better off with Spacevision lenses from 20 years earlier. Is the lens used on Comin' at Ya! open to the elements somehow? I wonder because of all the dirt on both eyes throughout. Similar spots can be seen on Friday the 13th and Jaws 3-D, but not to that extent.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I have to say, this has been a fascinating read.

My review will be posted in a few hours. Just letting everyone know, in advance, despite some members having no problems with this title, I cannot for the life of me recommend it to anyone. It's going to get a very unfavorable review. Of course, absolutely, I invite those of you with DLP systems to chime in with favorable comments.

I will admit it's hard to put the blame on anyone in particular. It seems we are dealing with a title whose problems are with how it was originally lensed.

As someone who has seen nearly every major 3D title released to the format, I have never seen a disc like this before. I ran over to a friend's house last night and threw this on his Panasonic 3D display and it exhibited the same ghosting issues. So, three displays and we can't get this disc to view correctly.

I am jealous of those of you who have DLP projectors. However, at the same time, for a pretty awful movie like this one, it's not making me regret my display purchase decisions at all.

 

[DFurr]

Wow....this thread has been quite the read! My entire home theatre is designed for the screening of all 3D media, 35mm and Blu Ray, and I've supported every classic 3D BD release to date except Coming At Ya. Despite what I've read on these pages I will purchase this title regardless. I've yet to see a classic 3D release that was "perfect" but for the most part every title is worth the purchase. I'm just grateful to be able to screen these classic 3D flicks and have the utmost respect for the energy, time and expense it took to make it all happen. Keep up the good work.

 

[Matt Hough]

My disc that I bought arrived the other day, but I have been too busy to watch it. Probably won't get to it until next week at some point, but I'll certainly be chiming in with my impressions once I've seen it on my equipment.

I do remember seeing it in the theater and despite knowing the movie itself was terrible, the 3D gave me such a kick that I couldn't get enough of 3D movies in the early 1980s.

 

[Reed Grele]

Just for the record, Comin' at Ya! isn't the only 3D Blu-ray that looks like crap on my plasma and LCD systems. I can see ghosting on just about every classic, and current "real" 3D release that has any significant amount of forward projection. If I can see even the slightest ghosting on these titles, for me, it's a FAIL!. Perhaps that doesn't bother less picky viewers out there. But that's just the way I am.

I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that I'd see ghosting on any non DLP display technology using active glasses.They all have it. It's just a matter of degree, and what you'll tolerate.

I won't tolerate ghosting at all. That's why I chose DLP over any other option out there.

I'm sure that for 2D, other technology will surely blow away my Sharp 30k. But for 3D... No way!