Censorship_ON O&A Suspended 30 Days by XM (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

Here is another great, great interview on the subject of XM
and censorship....

Click Here

It really puts the situation into proper perspective.

I have put a lot of thought to this, and I'm going to cancel my XM
subscriptions later today. For XM to advertise themselves as
UNCENSORED RADIO and pull a stunt like this, makes me quite
upset.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Not me, I won't cut off my nose to spite my face. Such an act will hurt me too much as far as my listening pleasure.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Robert,

I'm in a different situation than you.

I am a fan of Opie and Anthony. Have been for years.

I think based on that, I should make the same point as
thousands of other subscribers who canceled.

I'm certain that in a few months when all this blows over
I will resubscribe.

Glad to hear you are enjoying XM.

 

[TheLongshot]

Or, maybe just a month, if it is just a suspension.

Jason

 

[Chris]

I think, to be honest, O&A themselves painted XM into a corner. Yes, XM probably shouldn't have asked for an apology. But they did, and there were probably bigger thoughts on their mind (like saying this doesn't help our merger cause..) .. but O&A made this much worse with their rail on Monday. To be honest, O&A face the same problem as anyone who's doing a mix media.. or anything on regular airwaves. It's not censorship per se (the government never got involved in Imus) but it's a flat boycott/blackout.

Both conservative and liberal groups have done this incredibly effectively over the past few years, able to call sponsors or email sponsors directly to demand changes or a change in their business practice.

Dr. Laura's television show was killed before it really got going thanks to an incredibly successful boycott campaign led against it; Imus had several like Sharpton and those go after him; some groups face down the religious.. everyone has it just down to a science. They don't put pressure on the act or the company directly, they put pressure on the advertisers. And, for some, it works.

That's where this situation with O&A is backwards, in that you've got some advertisers threatening to bail if they aren't put back on.

I think this is a complete lose-lose for XM. I'm not even sure there is a good hand to be played to get out of this. This is where the proposed merger is bad because people on SIRIUS, who would normally be laughing at incompetence here just have to shrug and think to themselves how much $$ XM may have just cost them.

 

[WillG]

I am happy that this incident is causing such a reaction (Guess this really proves that O&A are failing) And if I did drink coffee, I would be switching to Nashville Coffee.

However, I have not done anything to cancel my subscription because I don't really take the incident so much as blatant censorship. It's not really like the call was dumped out of and then XM cut to Van Halen music. This suspension was more political in nature. The incident happened to come at a very bad time when XM cannot afford to piss off powerful people in Washington. Apparently an agreement was signed for O&A not to talk about the incident further and XM feels that they broke it. As much as I don't want O&A to be suspended, I can't fully blame XM for dicinplinary action when their employees broke a signed agreement (although, I am happy that O&A didn't back down from talking about what they felt they had to). And for the record, this was not the first time XM forbade O&A from talking about something on the air. There have been other incidents in the past. I guess I don't believe that O&A got suspended simply because of that paticular phone call with Homeless Charlie, so I'm not getting out a pitchfork and torch just yet. If O&A are not back uncensored after this 30 days, then I will have to rethink.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I'll be the first to admit that O&A are failing. In the past few weeks
their FM show has been "unlistenable." Instead of concentrating on being
funny, every show that they do is filled with tirades on censorship
and how radio has changed to the point that they have no idea what
they can and cannot say.

In the beginning, I loved the fact that they were standing up and
badmouthing their companies and the special interest groups that
were attacking them. Now, after weeks of the same complaints,
it's getting rather old.

On the other hand, O&A are failing because they can't do the kind
of radio that once brought them ratings. They can't be edgy anymore.
There are so many more words they cannot use and ethnic jokes that
they must avoid. They are being forced to do NICE radio. In fact, a
recent columnist for THE NY DAILY NEWS complained that the show
was no longer filthy enough for him.

On the XM side, their show is very dirty. However, this recent
incident may very well change the manner in which the boys can
conduct the satellite portion of their show.

 

[WillG]

I suppose that it would be hypocritical for me to say that this was not problematic. Especially since alot of my respect for Stern waned during the time when he was constantly wailing against the Bush and the FCC (Although I still think he was way more over the top with his railings, going so far as to state that George Bush has a personal vendetta against him ) I did appreciate hearing their thoughts and support when the whole Imus thing was going on at first. But I do lament that they now seem to be going down the same road as Howard. Part of me actually hopes they will "Walkout" from CBS in the wake of all that has happened. But, I suppose at this point that would not be the best move for them since their future on Satellite is hardly secure pending the merger and Mel possibly running things and now even with XM and this (as of now) suspension.

CBS, Clear Channel etc. are really shooting themselves in the foot. They're quaking over Satellite and even lobbying to get it regulated. But for years they have been the ones driving people to it. Even if O&A are fired from XM, as much as I would have some loathing for myself, I'm not sure I could bring myself to cancel. I just could never go back to regular radio.

 

[Jean D]

If they leave XM for whatever reason, I doubt their CBS show would be anything that would retain their core fan base. perhaps O&A could do an subscription internet based radio show. free from rules, being their own bosses, no one else to hold accountable. Although, if Net Neutrality ever turns for the worse, it could be the nail in the coffin on that idea.

 

[TheLongshot]

I hate the fact that edgy = dirty. Fact is, you can be edgy without swearing. Usually, the guys who stand the test of time are those who are funny, rather than those who are outrageous. For example, you don't hear people talk about Sam Kinnison anymore, who's think was yelling into a microphone.

It doesn't mean that swearing or talking about questionable subjects shouldn't be allowed. What it means is that such things should actually be used in the service of comedy, not as some sort of shock value. It seems when O&A get themselves in trouble, it is for those reasons, when they are trying to shock the audience.

Personally, if you are funny, you will be funny in a clean enviroment as well as an unrestricted one. While the unrestricted one will give you more range in topics, it won't make you more funny.

Sometimes, it is the restrictions that make us more creative, because there are limits. Certainly, in movies, there are some lines of thought that while CGI has made more things possible, it doesn't mean that they should, or that it was better than when we had limitations and directors had to find creative ways around those limitations.

Just some thoughts in this whole thing.

Jason

 

[Jimi C]

Ha, Sam Kinnison didn't swear? I think somebody needs to relisten to some sam kinnison standup.

 

[TheLongshot]

Never said he didn't, but the only thing he's remembered for is his screaming, not that he was funny.

One more point I'd like to make. Like or hate Howard Stern, you have to respect him from the standpoint that it has been a very long time since he's been involved in an incident like this. (Last time I remember was way back in the 80s.) Howard seems to be a good judge of when he can push the limits, and when he shouldn't.

Uncensored radio gives you enough rope to hang yourself with. It isn't truely uncensored, tho, since there are invisible lines where, if you cross them, you are probably going to get in trouble with someone. The problem is finding where that line is without getting into too much trouble. This is where experience trumps youth.

Jason

 

[Jean D]

Thanks to Sam Kinison, I will never look at Grilled Cheese sandwiches the same way ever again. To claim he wasn't edgy (dirty; raunchy) is preposterous. It's the dirty jokes that get them that label, not what people remember about them.

Some people (younger generations) think of Eddie Murphy as a family friendly movie actor. To me, he will always be remembered for his "Delirious" and "Raw" stand ups.

 

[TheLongshot]

Which again goes to my point (which seems to have been lost on some people): If you are funny, you will be funny no matter what the restrictions are on you. If you need the unrestricted venue to be funny, then maybe you weren't funny in the first place and were going for shock value.

It directly addresses Ron's point that the reason O&A aren't as good are because they aren't allowed to do the show they want to do. I call BS on that one. Fact is, if they are worth what they are getting paid, they should adjust to whatever limitations that are on them and find another way to be funny that does fit under the rules.

Jason

 

[Jean D]

Im not a big fan of O&A. I could take em or leave em. When they used to be on 107.3 WAAF in Boston, I listened to them occasionally. In their defense, they have a target audience. Not everyone is happy hearing knock knock jokes or top ten reason lists. some people like fart jokes. Some people like to hear the things they are afraid to say, and others want to be "hip" (Like when I was in Jr. High school, Howard Stern was the "hip" thing to catch.) Crude humor is very sought after when your an adolescent (which is a growing audience. Everyone knows the younger generations are where the cutting edge markets to). But lets face is, not everyone can have a staff of writers and produce hilarious jokes as "The Office" can.
So, I'm basically saying that their paycheck is exactly what they are worth. In actuality, they are probably worth more, but stock holders need to make money too, otherwise your not worth what your being paid for. No boss is going to pay someone to do a job, if they don't see a return from their "investment"

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Jason,

Opie and Anthony are "shock jocks." You can't do shock by
pushing the envelope anymore in the current broadcast environment.

Howard Stern fell into the same dilemma in his final year of
radio. He couldn't push the envelope anymore so he spent his
time railing against Bush and the FCC.

What the "other" morning shows do on FM radio can be
categorized as funny within restrictions -- and you know
what?! They suck!

What made O&A (and Stern) a cut above the others is that
they constantly pushed the envelope. They constantly poked
fun at religious and ethnic groups. They could pretty much
say anything they wanted to say to get a laugh. Now, they are
forced to do "nice" radio.

I think it's total BS that in a case such as this, you make the
argument of "funny is funny." Imagine if George Carlin were
suddenly forced not only to do a clean show, but was unable to
talk about religion and ethnic groups. His show may be somewhat
funny, but overall, his act would suffer.

When Howard Stern left FM radio his show was a complete
"dumbed down" version of what it once was. Howard was unhappy
and so were his fans. At least, at that point in time, he was still
able to poke fun at just about anyone without consequences.

 

[Chris]

I tried to post this yesterday but didn't get to it.

Edgy does not equal dirty. The two are not synonymous in any way. I've heard Lenny Bruce perform a set while almost entirely clean and he still rocked the house.

People remember George Carlin as a great, edgy standup in part because he is uncensored, but largely because of what he says while he's uncensored. The comment made about Kennison was basically: who goes around and talks about Kennison now? Was he really edgy in a way you'd remember now? Not really.

Think about Dave Chappelle. I'd argue that the Chappelle Show was absolutely edgy, moreso then most crap on TV.. he took on big issues with wide eyes and made you LAUGH about it. And there wasn't a lot of "f8(& you!' and so on thrown in there, it was just funny, no matter what the content.

What someone was trying to say was simple: to be edgy you don't have to be blue. I'd agree.

Then again, to me, some of the most memorable comedy of all time is not really all that blue. Hell, Harold Lloyd still makes me laugh and those were silent films! Monty Python was absolutely edgy, taking on all sorts of social issues, but I don't remember Holy Grail breaking down in to long bits of the seven deadlies.

If you're funny, you're funny. But I think comedians work best when they get forced to work clean now and again to home their craft and figure out the "fun" part. Going "blue" should be like sauce on steak.. a nice addition, makes everything better, but it comes after you've got the heart of the meal.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

The only time I can recall Howard issuing an on-air apology was after the Selena incident, which I believe was in the spring of 1995.

 

[Tim_Stack]

And even that "apology" was funny because he did it in horrible Spanish...

 

[Jeff Gatie]

I think the literal translation was "I'm sorry you have a fish in your pants."