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Canare DIY component cable help

Discussion in 'Accessories, Cables, and Remotes' started by Brian Nichols, May 25, 2002.

  1. Brian Nichols

    Brian Nichols Member

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    I ordered all the required equipment from markertek to build my 2 30 foot runs of component cable. Everything seemed to install correctly, except the cable won't pass 480p or 1080i signal. I think I must have made a mistake when installing the rca ends. Can anyone help me with any tips or suggestions on what I might be doing wrong so that I can avoid wasting alot of money and time? Thanks alot!

    Brian
     
  2. Rob_VVVV

    Rob_VVVV Member

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    [​IMG]
    I had the same problem.
    It turns out 1 of the rca plugs got messed in the assembly.
    I crimped the pin - then slid it into the jack - but instead of hitting the center hole it went just to the side - I heard the snap so I figured all was ok.
    Of course - this was about a 50' run thru walls, down in the crawl space and back thru more walls - this was about the 4th cable I made and was getting pretty good at it.
    So I crimped them all up - heat shrinked them up pluged them in and nothing.
    Of course I didnt have a tester that would reach from 1 end in the LR to the other in the hall closet so I couldnt tell which lead was bad.
    I dug out an old vcr w/ a video output - and tried each lead the red was fine, the blue was fine, the green didnt work - so I knew that was the culpret - had a 50/50 change that one of the connection were bad - I snipped off 1 and found the misplaced pin (lucky guess) i re-did that one
    plugged it back in and it worked.
    Then pluged it into the dvd and worked like a charm.
    The simple answer would be get a tester and check each lead.
    Hope that helps.
     
  3. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Well-Known Member

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    You can't pass 480P or 1080i with 2 cables. Component input/output requires 3.

    Pete
     
  4. Brian Nichols

    Brian Nichols Member

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    Rob_VVV,

    Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I also tested each cable (via composite input to the TV) and found 2 of the 6 (I was running 2 separate runs of component cable) were bad. I will order more ends and try again.

    Thanks!
    Brian
     
  5. Clay Autery

    Clay Autery Well-Known Member

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    Let me offer some totally unsolicited advice/hints on terminating Canare wire with Canare connectors, using Canare tools... The following may not apply to this situation, but I am offering these observations from my experiences:

    Most of this applies to all crimp on Canare connectors (BNC, F, and RCA), but I will tailor it to RCA only...

    In my experience, the most critical part of doing a Canare/Canare termination is to properly prepare the cable strip...

    1) The cable stripper must be set as close to perfect as possible... This sometimes takes a while to get right, but will pay dividends in the long run.

    2) The cable needs to be rimmed as close to square on the end as possible with a GOOD cable cutter before stripping.

    3) Make sure the cable stripper is clean and free of previous stripping debris.

    4) When you close the stripper cover, do so gently and don't just crush it closed... AND just until it clicks shut.

    5) Start the stripper rotations very slowly and smoothly. Listen/feel the cutters and stop rotations at 15 or sooner if you can tell that no more "wire" cutting is happening.

    6) After you pull the cutoff portion off the end, there are several things you need to check to make sure the end is properly prepared:

    a) Center conductor: The center conductor needs to be straight... Rotate the cable in your fingers and check it from all angles... straighten as necessary, but don't nick the cable. The end of the center conductor needs to be as close to flat cut as possible. Use a good set of flush cut nippers to trim it flat if need be... This will also allow you to make sure the center conductor is trimmed to the proper length and straight. Trial fit the center pin on the center conductor... The center pin should JUST meet with the insulation... There should be NO GAP, but also you want to fill the center pin reservoir with center conductor...

    b) Inspect the end of the inner insulation around the center conductor VERY carefully. Look for small pieces of aluminum shielding or small bits of braid wire. Remove anything like this with your finger nail and make sure the entire end of the insulation is clear and white (stary metal bits will affect the electrical properties of the wire when terminated)

    c) Now, move back to where the cutter cuts the wire braid. Very often the aluminum tape will be perforated at this point in order to get the braid to sever. While the perforated tape will not generally be a problem, you do need to inspect this area VERY closely. (Making sure you have already put the crimp tube on the cable) Pull the braid back perpendicular to the cable and flare it out evenly around the cable. Now look at the braid cut ring on the insulation. Check to make VERY SURE that there are no stray braid wire bits that have been pushed into the cut in the tape/insulation. If there are any, pull them out carefully... (You also might want to try and lift the appropriate cutter wheel a bit if the perforation/cut is too deep into the insulation). These wire bits can/will also affect the cable performance...

    d) Now, direct your attention to the flared braid... Typically, it will be a bit too long for a proper crimp... It may stick out from under the crimp ring when it is pulled forward over the barrel knurl. I alway take my flush cutters and trim it back a bit all the way around to make sure it isn't too long.

    If everything has been done carefully and properly, the cable strip is dome.

    7) Place the center tip on the center conductor and make sure it is flush with the insulation and staright. Take your crimper and close it around the crimp pin just to the point that you can move it up and down along the pin, but closed sufficiently that the die catches on the pin flange at the bottom next to the insulation. Now, apply some pressure against the pin flange with the crimper to insure that the pin is pushed fully flush against the insulation. Making SURE that the pin is straight (pin parallel with cable, crimper perpendicular to cable in all axis). Crimp the pin with a FULL and firm stroke of the crimper. (I generally turn the pin 90 degrees and "safety" crimp. This is not absolutely necessary, and MAY mess up the pin crimp if dome improperly) Remove the crimper and inspect the pin. If it is OK, proceed.

    8) Take the RCA barrel and carefully place it over the pin and cable. IF the pin is perfectly straight and you bring the barrel in straight, the inner pin should feed fine into the RCA outer pin... MAKE SURE that the pin feeds into the RCA barrel properly. Carefully pushe the connector on the cable until you feel the "click". Make sure the cable and connector are straight/parallel.

    9) Slide the crimp ring up over the barrel knurl carrying the braid (equally spaced) around the knurl. Insure that the braid does not protrude from the ring at all. Slide the ring as tightly as possible against the connector barrel, but do NOT lace any stress on the barrel to cable connection.

    10) Place the crimper over the crimp ring. You should JUST BARELY be able to see the ring protruding from the connector barrel side of the die... just barely. Crimp the ring with a full, smooth stroke of the crimper. (Though not absolutely necessary, I rotate the cable 1 "side" of the crimp ring and "safety" crimp the crimp ring.

    Inspect the connector... If all looks well, test it electrically...

    a) continuity along the center conductor
    b) continuity along the braid (connector housing/crimp ring)
    c) check for shorting between center conductor and connector housing (both ends to be safe, but a short at either end should show up at both ends)

    I know this appears to be an extremely anl way to do a simple RCA connector termination, but if you follow this procedure religiously, it will become automatic. You will still be able to make termination just as fast, AND they will almost ALWAYS be good ones.

    Hope this helps...
     
  6. Jed M

    Jed M Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation Clay. I have been making canare cables for a couple months now and its nice to have an in depth manual to go by. Your information would have saved me many of bad cables. [​IMG] I appreciate you sitting down and taking the time to help the newbies like myself and the potential cable makers lurking in the shadows [​IMG]
     
  7. Brian Nichols

    Brian Nichols Member

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    Clay,

    Thanks for your input. I definitely was not anal about the straightness of the cable end and suspect that they did not go in straight. I didn't feel at least 2 of them "click". I will follow your instructions (once I get more RCA ends from markertek!) and try again. In the meantime, since I have 4 good cables out of the 6, I can use 3 for at least one set of high def component cables.

    Thanks again,
    Brian
     
  8. Michael Merrell

    Michael Merrell Well-Known Member

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    I started my DIY (Canare) cable odyssey today. There was some frustration and now a question.

    I ended up with 3 bad cables out of 6. It turned out that on one of the RCA connectors on each cable, I had pushed the pin off to the side, instead of straight into the center pin sleeve. I was able to guess which one 2 out of 3 times, so I only lost 4 connectors.

    My question: How tight is the crimper supposed to crimp the ring? It seemed too easy to to pull the ring back when pulling off the bad connector. I am using a Parts Express crimping handle and a Canare die.

    Thanks,

    --Mike
     
  9. Clay Autery

    Clay Autery Well-Known Member

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    Note: You can get the pins and sleeves separately, so don't toss the barrels. Just order extra sleeves and pins on your next connector order.
    Michael, you are the second guy in this thread having trouble with off-centering the inner pin... I have NEVER had a single mis-aligned center pin. Read/re-read my Canare termination procedure above. It sounds to me like you may not be getting the inner pin crimped on the conductor flush to the insulator and more importantly... square/parallel with the cable. You really shouldn't have so many failures...
    Now I can't answer your question on crimp "tight"ness, as I use all Canare tools, and it is simply a "no-brainer". You crimp until the frame ratchet quits clicking and release. [​IMG]
    I've never used the PE frame for my Canare dies... But essentially, you want to make sure the dies halves are fully seated against each other at the bottom of the crimp stroke.
    Please re-read my procedure above and see if you can spot anything that you are missing. Oh, and also... re-check to make sure that your connectors and cable match... You need to have the correct sleeve, center pin, and barrel for the type of cable you have chosen. It IS possible that you were given either the wrong sleeve (too big), or the wrong barrel (flange too small)... but more than likely you are on to the problem... not a full crimp stroke. Hope this helps.
     
  10. Michael Merrell

    Michael Merrell Well-Known Member

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    Bingo! I figured out how to adjust the crimping handle (no instructions for any of these tools, except for the stripper), and the crimps are now solid.

    Of the barrels that I have, one had seated correctly, but I had to pull it to check (50/50 chance to pick the right end), so its locking sleeve is shot. Perhaps it will still work when crimped in, though. The other three have a pin jammed in next to the locking sleeve. The pin is jammed in pretty good, and is partially hung on the rim of the barrel. I've tried pulling it over the lip with a pin, with no luck. Oh, well.

    Anyway, I've added a QA step to the process to prevent the misalignment problem. Prior to fully seating the pin into the barrel, I check continuity. If it's there (and it has been, now that I've been more careful), I fully seat the barrel.

    Thanks for the help!

    --Mike
     
  11. Clay Autery

    Clay Autery Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you have it figured out now, Mike. Good deal! [​IMG]
     
  12. Jeff D

    Jeff D Well-Known Member

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    Clay, let me ask this... I've just started using the canare stripper and I 've got a question.

    The three cuts, first is to the core, second is where I'm confused. The thrid is for the braid.

    Does the second cut go deep enought to remove the foil wrapping? I'm using a belden 1694A cable. I can't seem to get that cut deep enought to cut the braid but not the foil. They seem to be the same. Chris white's page shows the foil remaining. The canare TS100E stripper pdf file shows no foil.

    I'm confused as to what I should be doing.

    Thanks,
    -JEff
     
  13. Clay Autery

    Clay Autery Well-Known Member

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    First cuts through the insulation to the core, but MUST NOT be allowed to score the conductor AT ALL.
    Second, "theoretically" cuts through the last braid before the insulation, but not into the foil wrap... In practice however, you will likely be cutting through the foil wrap over the insulation in order to successfully cut through the braid... (Actually, I don't think it matters much whether the foil is left over the insulation at the end or not... I choose to leave it on. Just make sure the foil does not protrude over the end of the insulation resulting in a reduced conductor separation distance. Removing that short section of foil shouldn't have any effect on performance since it is most likely cut through anyway... It takes an extra effort to peel it away, so I choose not to)
    This is frankly, not a problem... Just set the cutter to the minimum depth you can achieve the braid cut...
    Note: Be sure to ALWAYS check the cut at the foil to MAKE sure you don't leave any braid/foil pieces imbedded in the foil/insulator, as this will reduce the insulation separation between the inner conductor and the braid/foil... Just pull them out if you find any... (This exercise requires decent eyesite.... At 38 (and I still have 20/20), I have a pair of glasses that help me do close work as my minimal focal distance has increased to about a foot... You need to be able to inspect the cut at
     
  14. Jeff D

    Jeff D Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Clay,

    It took me something like 30 test cuts to get the depths correct. At the moment I'm pretty happy with what I've got. I've made my first two cable. I removed the small bit of foil between cuts one and two, got the crimps done and then did a continuity test to check for shorts.

    Fun Stuff!
     
  15. Clay Autery

    Clay Autery Well-Known Member

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    Yep... It does take a while to get the cutter set up for a new cable type, but once it is set, you can't believe nice of a tool it is... Especially if you EVER had to do a coax termination WITHOUT one. [​IMG]
    BTW, I hope you chose wisely which pre-set to change on the tool... Wouldn't want to have to go back and change it again! [​IMG]
    Removing the foil should have no effect on the performance one way or another...
     
  16. Jeff D

    Jeff D Well-Known Member

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    Picking what to change was tough, not sure what could ever come in handy. I took a best guess.

    The new cables are great. My girlfriend even noticed on a test, one old one new cable. She said each sided sounded different with the right side (old, cheap cable) sounding to harsh. The high stuff I asked, she siad yeah.

    I noticed these cables were much better at bringing a balanced signal through. At least that's what I thought. Cymbals and such are less harsh.
     
  17. John_B

    John_B Member

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    Clay,
    I am doing the Canare BNC connectors with Belden 1694A for A RGB cable to my projector. On the crimp ring there are two indented rings around one end, is this the end that goes up against the connector? This is my first time with these connectors.

    John
     
  18. Clay Autery

    Clay Autery Well-Known Member

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    Hey John...

    There are several different designs of the ferrules... Some have one ring, some two, some none...

    It doesn't really matter, BUT I usually put the rings on the cable side... Usually, this gives you a pretty good guide of where the edge of the die should strike...
     
  19. John_B

    John_B Member

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    Thanks Clay,
    Just wanted to make sure since I've not used These connectors before.

    John
     

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