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Can Amazon stand above the fray and make sense of the Android / tablet mess? (1 Viewer)

Ted Todorov

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Amazon just killed all other Android tablets dead, along with the Playbook if it wasn't dead already.
Google must be pleased with themselves (not). If Andy Rubin had been a Microsoft plant to bleed Google billions of dollars in the mobile space and make companies like Samsung and HTC to pay Microsoft on top of that, he couldn't have done it any better.
Amazon using Google's old source code against them is just the coup de grâce.
 

Ted Todorov

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Quote:
DaveF said:
The Kindle Fire goes on pre-order today for a flat $199, so it’s unclear whether it will come with offers or not.

Having an iPad I have absolutely no interest in the Kindle Fire, but as I said above I think it will reshape the tablet space by killing all non-Apple competition very, very dead.
 

mattCR

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Pretty much how I see it. Frankly, every Android tablet I've played with has been junky. Amazon doing this pretty much drives a nail through damn near all of them. Why would you even consider Xoom? Etc. It's $199 price + complete end to end marketplace governed by Amazon's app store (not Google's) pretty much guarantees them a widespread launch, control of a marketspace and profits end to end.

I'm not saying I have much interest, but for someone just getting in, this may be a very interesting option.. and using AWS as a cacheing relay server system is frankly a fairly brilliant use of their online storage farm... and something others aren't in a position to counter at all.
 

mattCR

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I'm not saying it WILL be, but technically, yes, it SHOULD be. By caching back pulled websites and optimizing before delivery, it means pages should require less bandwidth to download.

For example, Engadget's webpage in full is about 1.3Mb. However, going through a cacheing server that compresses for target, it's 460k. So, even if two devices have the exact same bandwidth same connection, same processor, one is downloading 3X the data that the other one is. Thus, for the end user, the "bump" will be noticeable.



Originally Posted by DaveF /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855166
With this web server stuff, could browsing on the Fire be faster than on an iPad 2?
 

Ted Todorov

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Originally Posted by mattCR /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855169
I'm not saying it WILL be, but technically, yes, it SHOULD be. By caching back pulled websites and optimizing before delivery, it means pages should require less bandwidth to download.

For example, Engadget's webpage in full is about 1.3Mb. However, going through a cacheing server that compresses for target, it's 460k. So, even if two devices have the exact same bandwidth same connection, same processor, one is downloading 3X the data that the other one is. Thus, for the end user, the "bump" will be noticeable.
Unless I'm missing something, that would make a huge difference with a poor 3G connection. Thing is, the Fire is WiFi only, so if you have good internet bandwidth at home, it won't make any noticeable difference. When web browsing on an iPad 1 on WiFi, the limiting factor is ALWAYS processing speed (you get the checkerboard screen) not data load/network.
 

DaveF

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Amazon's webpage touts the latency issue: no more HTF spinning its wheels as it loads yahooupis and thoseupis and theseupis and ads and ....

Just *blam* there's the webpage.
 

mattCR

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The big reason why you need that processing power though is because of what's being re-rendered. Think about it this way; a webpage built for a set size is being re-rendered by your device or your web browser. This is true of everything that uses tables, CSS overlays, and any coding. Every browser on every desktop reformulates that for it's view.

Here, Amazon knows the target device and browser. Their caching server reduces the total size of download and pre-processes for the target device, which means all of those things that are normally done by the browser / onboard processor require far less work. A "table=100%" option is in cache changed to the exact metrics of the target device, so the device isn't re-computing for it's screen.
Graphics are re-rendered toward target device output, and so on.

So, it's not just reducing size - though that's more to it then you'd think, it's also about rendering correct for a device. Also, if Amazon is correct, since theirs strips call-out code (ie, "google Metrics; ad-servers; etc.) then the time to render is reduced significantly again by pre-populating that back to those metrics servers without your device having to deal on the wait.



Originally Posted by Ted Todorov /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855172
Quote:
Unless I'm missing something, that would make a huge difference with a poor 3G connection. Thing is, the Fire is WiFi only, so if you have good internet bandwidth at home, it won't make any noticeable difference. When web browsing on an iPad 1 on WiFi, the limiting factor is ALWAYS processing speed (you get the checkerboard screen) not data load/network.
 

Hanson

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And if they really want to put Google's feet to the fire, they could remove all ads during the process.
 

mattCR

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I realize now what a strike this is against Netflix also...

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-Multi-touch-Display-Wi-Fi/dp/B0051VVOB2/ref=amb_link_357575542_7?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=gateway-center-column&pf_rd_r=151CAHFM0D8MYFNW6T6J&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1321408942&pf_rd_i=507846

With Amazon offering Prime users full access to streaming on this device, it makes Prime streaming actually a cool add on and ads value to that service; for people who want to ditch a netflix bill now that they've divided, that's a value added service of about $10 a month.
 

Sam Posten

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Twins!
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/28/kindle-fire-vs-blackberry-playbook-fight/
Newsstand:
http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/28/kindle-fire-newsstand-conde-nast-dc-comic/
More on Silk:
http://gizmodo.com/5844663/what-is-amazon-silk
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/09/amazons-silk-web-browser-adds-new-twist-to-old-idea.ars
no big wows:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/28/piper_jaffray_estimates_amazon_will_lose_50_per_kindle_fire.html
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393740,00.asp
video:
http://gizmodo.com/5844742/video-of-the-amazon-kindle-fire-in-action-up-close
 

Dave Scarpa

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How will it kill other tablets? Its entirely cloud based, limited to 8gb onboard space. You cannot add your own video content, you have to have wifi access. You will not be able to add other reading apps like Nook. Yor limited to Amazon's market place apps. This is hardly a replacement for most tablets that let you add up to 32gb of SDHC storage, plays multiple format audio and videos, and allow you to read from various vendors. This is strictly a portal for Amazon, not a bad thing if you are using it, but hardly a replacement for an open device
 

mattCR

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First, you're comparing with an iPad. Ok, let me explain how this is a real factor: lots of people aren't storing a lot of video content on their tablets (I'm storing none) but the use of Netflix has (had) been important. Amazon Prime is a good counter for that, and I pay for it already.
The 8GB is enough to store about 4-7 movies locally or numerous books, tons of apps, etc. The most popular iPad is the 16GB... by a huge, huge margin. I don't think this kills say, iPad, but it makes almost useless almost all android based tablets. It's $199 (half to 1/3 the price) which makes it far more attractive to those users... it becomes a "cheaper then netbook/cheap notebook" option that has been missing. Since it has end to end support from Amazon, it's built in ecosystem is more developed then anything on the market except for Apple.. and it's not even close. All the Android tablets look like they are in total dissarray in comparison.

So, it depends on how you look at it. I will tell you, the price point plus ecosystem are going to be huge factors that put a major punch into anything in the Android side of the house. I ordered two. The price is a killer factor. At $200, I'd let my kids play with it. Realize I could buy 2 of these for the same as a Galaxy (and pocket $100) .. the price point is a huge huge item... and a big crush to a lot of people who want to get something with a major name brand they know and like.



Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855199
How will it kill other tablets? Its entirely cloud based, limited to 8gb onboard space. You cannot add your own video content, you have to have wifi access. You will not be able to add other reading apps like Nook. Yor limited to Amazon's market place apps. This is hardly a replacement for most tablets that let you add up to 32gb of SDHC storage, plays multiple format audio and videos, and allow you to read from various vendors. This is strictly a portal for Amazon, not a bad thing if you are using it, but hardly a replacement for an open device
 

Hanson

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I do have a friend here and there that watches video on their iPad, but they know enough about VLC to make it happen. Everyone else? No video. Only use Kindle. And they stream music rather than load up mp3's. And without those space hogs, 8GB is actually not that bad. The only thing you can't do that tablets are pretty good at is video conferencing. But it will surf faster and the form factor allows you to read Kindle one handed. It should run 90% of the games. Oh, and It runs Flash.

And the Amazon market isn't anything to sneeze at. 95% of my Market apps are on Amazon anyway. So it's not as hobbled as you think.

None of these thing suit me at all, so I'll stick with my Galaxy Tab. But my wife would love this -- it would be a nice step up from her iPod.
 

Sam Posten

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It's got a USB port and allows sideloading via mass storage devices. You can hook up a 2tb drive with your own apps and content if you want. They expect it to be rooted on day 1 too but the need will be lower than other tablets I'd think.
 

Dave Scarpa

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Well once again good if you are in range of Wifi, but what f you are traveling with none. Will this device let you add video locally, I see no indication that it will, nor the ability to DL Amazon Prime videos to said 8gb of local storage, it appears to stream only.
 

mattCR

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They list that it supports MP4 file format (that's video content) so if it supports that file format, by default it supports locally stored video. They'll pump up the streaming, but there is no point in naming file format supports if you can't actually access them.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-Multi-touch-Display-Wi-Fi/dp/B0051VVOB2/ref=amb_link_357575542_7?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=gateway-center-column&pf_rd_r=13ZPC732JEZZ620BZG4X&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1321408942&pf_rd_i=507846
Well once again good if you are in range of Wifi, but what f you are traveling with none. Will this device let you add video locally, I see no indication that it will, nor the ability to DL Amazon Prime videos to said 8gb of local storage, it appears to stream only.
 

DaveF

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Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/60#post_3855210
Well once again good if you are in range of Wifi, but what f you are traveling with none. Will this device let you add video locally, I see no indication that it will, nor the ability to DL Amazon Prime videos to said 8gb of local storage, it appears to stream only.
In six months with an iPad 2, with trips to NYC, Chicago, and Indianapolis, my wife has never activated 3G. Wifi is everywhere, and if it's not working for a bit, the iPhone fills in. To my surprise, wifi gets you very, very far with a tablet.

And her 16GB iPad is only half full, and most of that is photos.

I can imagine an 8GB wifi-only tablet could work pretty well for a lot of people. Especially at $199 with no contract.
 

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