Buffy the Vampire Slayer - The Series Challenge (1 Viewer)

[ethanTo]

Haha, it's alright. It's not like he told me HOW it happens, so I still have a surprise in store.

Now I'm just waiting for someone to make a spoiler box that says HOW. You know I'll click that one too!!!

 

[Nick Martin]

Oh please...

 

[Jeff#]

Well, I'm glad nobody complained about me not using spoiler boxes.

The reason I didn't is because (1) I got the impression that everyone posting here has seen most or all of the series.

and (2) It's a cancelled show, and my rule is that I don't give spoiler warnings for series that are off the air.

 

[Kevin Grey]

Huh? Admittedly I've seen it now, but this time last year I couldn't have said the same thing. And since then I've seen threads on other places I visit talking about experiencing the show for the first time so I'm not sure why you take this attitude. Hell, there is a recent thread on here from someone asking if they should start watching Deep Space Nine and how long has that been off the air?

And that Cordelia thing was very uncool.

 

[Kevin Grey]

Why? This forum should be plenty of evidence that a lot of people are experiencing shows for the first time on DVD vice on the air so why no concern about ruining something for them?

 

[Jay_B!]

defensive much? I wrapped it in spoilers. Lighten up, that particular episode aired over two years ago.

Buffy began nine years ago and Angel ended two years ago. Discussing those shows freely is hardly the same thing as spoiling last night's episode of Lost which a lot of people may have TIVO'd but haven't watched yet. Does "Who Shot JR" offend you for crying out loud?

 

[Kevin Grey]

Jay, all of your examples are things that have permeated the cultural conciousness. Buffy and Angel aren't even close to that. Hell, their ratings were probably a quarter of Lost on their best day so that makes a significant number of people out there as potential viewers to discover on DVD.

 

[Jay_B!]

as well as the season seven box set having a picture inside with the final shot of the gang from the last moments of the series finale. Like it or not, the Buffy sets were for the fans, the majority buying watched it originally on UPN or at least caught the FX/UPN weekend reruns in advance. It is fitting that a final season box would carry a photo from the final episode, one that had aired twice in prime time on UPN by that point, and also had aired a good four or five times on the FX cycles and at least once on the UPN weekend reruns.

With the same type of defensiveness that people had over the Buffy box sets spoiling things that were already common knowledge to the fans, I am shocked there wasn't an outrage over the Facts Of Life DVD having Nancy McKeon on the cover, considering she wasn't in season 1 and that it basically pointed out that the season 1 girls were mostly gone by season 2. I mean, I'm sure there are FOL virgins who don't know such a thing, how could Sony be so careless to "spoil" to them that Cindy, Sue Ann, Nancy and Molly are only reduced to extras in season 2?

 

[Jay_B!]

I guess you're right Kevin, but I guess I'm used to the old usenet Buffy boards. We would hold off discussing an episode until it aired on the west coast, but as soon as it was 9:01 PM in California, the message boards were free-for-all to talk about what happened in the episode. So I guess it just seems weird to me that people would get defensive of Buffy/Angel happenings that aired between two to nine years ago (hell, knowing that it's been nine years since Buffy began makes me feel so old) when it seemed perfectly fine to go into explicit detail hours after the episodes aired on the old message boards.

I am sure Buffy/Angel will still attract virgin fans for years to come, but it seems like most people I know who would give Buffy a chance already have. I know a lot of people who came to the show when it went to reruns, and then even more who came to it through DVD, and then I also turned a few friends onto it from word of mouth, but it seems like the reruns have been airing for so long and the DVD's have been around so long that the majority of people who wanted to check the show out have already. Of course, I hope future generations of Buffy geeks come to the show, but for right now, it seems like most people who have the desire to check the show out already have.

 

[Jay_B!]

I guess I'll halfheartedly apologize if I offended anyone (even though Ethan himself wasn't offended). I guess I have too much of a leanient feel with spoilers. To me, I don't mind knowing a spoiler because to me, knowing what leads up to the moment and seeing it build is the fun of it to begin with. I didn't get into Buffy until 2001 when FX started with the reruns and began taping the UPN episodes and started watching season 6 in order on tape once the FX reruns were caught up, but I already knew several of the major spoilers in advance Buffy dies, Buffy's mom dies, Angel becomes Angelus, Willow becoming a lesbian
and it didn't at all hinder my enjoyment of the show to that point. All it did was actually give me things to look forward to and whetted my appetite to see how the storylines would play out. I'm still a fan five years later and knowing those plot twists in advance at the time didn't hurt the show at all to me.

Same thing with when I started watching Charmed on TNT in 2002 when it went into syndication, I already knew key spoilers (actually there is one spoiler I think people who've never even seen an episode know by now) up to that point and I still was able to enjoy those.

 

[Nick Martin]

In much fewer words, I don't make any sort of deal about old shows and spoilers either. For these shows in particular, there's so much out there about all that happened, it's not easy for a fan, or potential fan, to try to learn about these shows (I say that because just 'blind buying' a TV DVD without knowing anything at all about it seems rather silly) in terms of what they're about, who the characters are, how many years they were on TV, etc without coming across spoilers of some kind.

Angel was not revealed to be a vampire until a few episodes into season 1. But anyone who has ever heard of ANGEL the series would know that. For people who have never seen Buffy but knew about these two shows:

You've been spoiled.

Oh, and one more spoiler - since he got his own show, that means sometime down the line, Angel and Cordelia had to leave the Buffy series...oops. Should I have spoiler boxed that?

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Come on, guys, let's get off of spoilers already. The bottom line is there really is no way to guarentee that the secrecy of a show will be kept secret once the show has aired and millions of people know what happens.

I'm in that situation right now with Veronica Mars season 2, the best way I can safeguard myself from reading any unwanted info before I see the season on DVD is to steer as clear of VM threads (unless I get someone to inspect the thread first to see if it's safe to go in) as much as I can.

Also, read with caution, when your reading a thread about a show you haven't seen, be aware and try to anticipate that the next sentence you read could potentially blow things for you, that almost happened to me in the VM season 1 thread when someone mistakenly posted what happened in the finale of season 2, but I caught myself, immediately stopped reading and retreated from the thread.

Just be careful, that's all, if your in a thread about a show you haven't seen, your in what pretty much amounts to a mine-field of info and your bound to step on one and blow the show for yourself.

 

[Jay_B!]

thank you Nicholas for having my back. IMO, once a show has gone into reruns and has gone into DVD and the episodes have been rerun at least 5 times... the spoilers wind up becoming in the domain. It's like watching the I Love The 80's/I Love The 90's specials on VH1, when they discuss movies, they go into spoilers, why? Enough time has passed that if you don't know which star dies in Titanic by now, then it's your problem for living under a rock.

To me there is a huge difference between spoiling old Buffy/Angel or X-Files episodes and spoiling last weeks episode of Lost or Veronica Mars (might be a better comparison to Buffy than Lost) because those spoilers are very fresh and chances are a lot of people who TIVO'd them haven't gotten around to watching, but after two to twelve years, it's your problem for not finding out by now. Plus, like I said, when I got into Buffy in 2001, I already KNEW many of the major spoilers to that point and still enjoyed it. Oh yea, by the way, I knew who was going to die
on the finale too before the final episode aired... still loved "Chosen".

 

[Kevin Grey]

My issue with what you are saying is that it seems very lazy- so since there are already some spoilers about various shows in the public domain, then you have carte blanche to spoil everything about the show at will which seems rather mean-spirited. Why assume that just because you were spoiled about some things and still enjoyed it that everybody will feel the same way?

Now, I'm not taking issue with discussion threads that are obviously going to be spoiler ridden (ie ongoing show discussions in the TV forum or some appropriately marked threads here). But to hear your justifications there would be no issues with going into a thread titled "Is Veronica Mars worth a blind buy" and giving out the killer's name because, hey, the season finale was on the air over a year ago and the DVDs have been available since October so there is no excuse not to have caught it already.

And it seems to be profoundly ignorant of this forum which gets "I just discovered "X" on DVD recently, and what a great show" threads on a regular basis.

Again, this doesn't necessilly apply to this spread specificaly but it would have been nice if there had been some sort of consensus on how spoilers would be handled before people felt like blowing the lid off of everything. I'm just shocked at the attitude of some of the posters here.

 

[Jay_B!]

once again Kevin, please read this, I've said it already.

I didn't become a fan of Buffy until the show went into reruns in 2001... from friends who watched the show, I already knew such spoilers as (middle season 2, middle season 5, end of season 5, gradually through season 4) and I was still able to enjoy the show and was still excited to see how the storylines unraveled. I didn't care that I already knew it, when I saw them play out, I was still surprised, shocked, upset, what have you.

Plus, the Usenet Buffy boards GAVE AWAY SPOILERS BEFORE THEY EVEN AIRED!!!! I knew what was going to happen to Xander in season 7, I knew what was going to happen with Tara and then Willow at the end of season 6, I knew exactly who would and wouldn't make it out of the series finale before they aired, and you know what... I was still shocked when they played out.

Being told something happens and actually seeing it play out are two different things. One can say such-and-such dies on a show but it's not until you experience it as it happens, it's not the same thing as just hearing about it.

 

[Holadem]

Kevin, I agree with every single point you made.

Good........ For......... You.

You utterly fail to understand that other people may just not function the way you do.

These series contain some pretty momentous events. All we are asking is some friggin consideration for those who had not yet experienced them. I shudder to think about a Babylon 5 (my all time favorite) discussion with you, with newbies around. That show contains some of most momentous, earth shattering twists I have ever experienced on TV. Stuff that pretty much redefines the series at some points. By your logic, spoilers should be fair game because... it's 10 years old.

--
H

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I agree with H and Kevin. Be a good boardmate and keep spoilers to yourself (or in the black boxes). Not everybody watches tne responds to stories the same way. I hate spoilers. I want to be the intended audience as much as possible, which means I like to let the film/story/directors surprise me.

Pretty simple. Yes, before I watched the DVDs of 3-7, I knew a lot of "spoilers". I wish I hadn't.

 

[Jay_B!]

Alright... answer this!!!

Do you get pissed off at I Love The... specials on VH1 when they discuss older movies (hell, as recent as 1999, which was after Buffy began and the year Angel started) and they actually go into detail about what happens in these movies, if major characters die, etc..? I mean, I never saw the original Poseidon Adventure (nor do I plan to see the new one) but yet I Love The 70's spoiled who dies in that movie and everything, despite the fact some of us may have never seen it? Please don't tell me there's a difference.

Oh yea, and just about every newbie to Dallas knows that JR Ewing gets shot at the end of season 3. Hell, the more recent Star Wars movies practically give away that Darth Vader is Luke's father even to those who have never seen these movies.

You're getting way too furious and upset, EthanTo wasn't pissed off when I said what happens in Angel season five WRAPPED IN SPOILER TEXT, so why should you?

 

[Jay_B!]

oh yea... this reminds me of a few years ago on another board. There was a thread in there discussing the movie "Queen Of The Damned" that had only come out the weekend prior, and someone gave away the fact that Aaliyah dies
without even the warning of a potential spoiler and I actually got a little offended because the movie had just come out and a lot of people were still planning to see it. The reply, "well, you should know what you're getting into for a thread about the movie", and you know, they are probably right. Yet I get cussed out and treated like a pariah by a few members by spoiling things WITH SPOILER TEXT!!!! Even though the person who should've been pissed off wasn't.

 

[Jay_B!]

you know, I am sorry if I pissed anyone off, but I think some people are too easily offended.

I actually have a Rose Nylund type of "I don't want anyone to dislike me" type personality. I don't think I did anything wrong, yet certain posters are treating me like scum of the earth for SPOILER SPACING things that every Buffy/Angel fans knows by this point. I could've gone all out and actually said what happens to Cordelia in full detail without the spoiler caps. But why didn't I? that would be a jerky thing to do and I try to consider myself a nice guy, not a jerk.

But whatever the hell, what are acceptable spoilers? I mean, for Christs sake, you can never have seen an episode of either series and know that Angel leaves the show and goes off to his own spinoff. Hell, I remember long before I was a Buffy fan, knowing what happens in the last moments of season 2 with Angel because Entertainment Tonight even had an interview with Boreanez during the summer hiatus and showing that scene... considering media outlets went all out showing what happened in Becoming Pt. 2, why should that be any more or less acceptable than say, what happens to a key male character in Dirty Girls? I don't see why I should be considered any less of a fan because I consider most of the shows happenings to be as engraved in the subconscious as anything else in 90's pop culture.