Buffy / Angel question (1 Viewer)

[Mark To]

Annie Farge was adorable as Angel with her cute French accent. I really enjoy the show although I don't know how so many people know about this sitcom from the early sixties. Really good show. Who's Buffy? Only Buffy I know is one of the twins on Family Affair.

 

[Dave>h]

I have been trying to figure out what it is about the shows that I like so much and I think it all comes down to Character. The shows, both Angel and Buffy, are populated with characters that I may not necessarily like, but that I find truly interesting and I am curious about. I doubt very much that I would like Buffy as a person were I to meet her, (kind of a bossy, holier than thou, beeatch) but I certainly respect her and I think I understand how she becomes who she is through the run of the show. And that change is truly remarkable.

A lot of things I have read give Season 6 a bad wrap, pointing out that Buffy wouldn't do some of the things she did (which IMHO is no reason to dis the season) but I disagree with that. Watching Buffy come to terms with being yanked from Heaven, watching her descend into hell, and taking herself there by her own volition, was to me great subtle storytelling. Watching her come out of that place and become this independent strong willed super hero, who could still deal with the day to day was mesmerizing. How SMG pulled it off, I don't know. She went to places that few actresses can pull off and I was impressed. That is why I rank the season so highly.

I guess on some level, everyone went to Hell in Season 6, and maybe that darkness is why people don't like it as much.

Anyway, just some random Monday thoughts.

happy 2005 all.

Dave

 

[Joshua_W]

double post

 

[Joshua_W]

THIS POST IS VAGUELY SPOILERY FOR BOTH BUFFY AND ANGEL. SKIP IF YOU'RE SPOILER SENSITIVE (I PROTECTED THE MOST SPECIFIC SPOILER)

As much as I love the show, I've never really bought Buffy as a character. I mean, when you get right down to it, she's a brat. Since the first episode of the second season, she's been a brat. And I'm not entirely sure that someone like that would cultivate friendships with people like Willow and Xander, or even be a successful vampire slayer when she's whining about not being able to shop at the mall or gossip on the telephone when she's wandering through graveyards.

Which is why, I suppose, I've always liked Faith better.

A couple of other things that sort of bug me about the shows...

Fathers. Ever notice that no character has a good relationship with his/her father? Willow's father is never seen. Xander's father is a boozehound. Buffy's father is a deadbeat dad who abandoned his family. Wesley's father. Angel's father. The strained relationship between Angel and Connor. Even Giles, Buffy's father figure, frequently betrays and abandons her. Of all of the characters in the Buffyverse, Fred is so far the only one who has a good father, and he was only seen once.

Classicism. There's also an undercurrent of classicism running through the shows. Characters who come from less economically advantaged backgrounds are frequently shown as being more susceptable to the temptations of evil. Compare and contrast the middle-class, preppy Buffy with the "white trash" "working class" Faith. (Actual words that have been used to describe her in BTS material). And we can't forget about Gunn and Lindsey, both grew up poor (Lindsey in Oklahoma, Gunn on the streets) who both willingly sold out to Wolfram and Hart.
There's an undercurrent that implies that the more economically advantaged are inherently more heroic. Angel and Spike both came from wealthy familes; Buffy, Xander, and Willow are middle-class;Giles and Wesley both seem to come from money. But the kids from the wrong side of the tracks like Faith, Gunn, and Lindsey seem too willing to side with the bad guys.

 

[Matt Butler]

Well I started Angel and I love it! Ive been switching discs and watching them alternately. Buffy S4 disc 1, Angel S1 disc 1 etc.

Im digging B S4 but not as much as 2 or 3. But "Hush" kicked my ass!

And what the hell is up with Spike?
I dont know if hes good or evil.

 

[Ray H]

He pretty much keeps that status throughout the shows, but I guess he leans more towards one than another by the end.

 

[Holadem]

Joshua, that was one hell of a spoiler about Gunn .

I know you tagged it but without knowing what kind of spoiler it is (after all I watched 8 out of 11 seasons) I thought I was safe.

Guys, spoiler tags don't do much good if we don't know what kind of spoilers they are (Angel S3, etc...).

--
H

 

[Matt Thompson]

In that case, don't read over spoiler tags. That said, what's said in that spoiler isn't quite as extreme as it's made out to be.

 

[Matt Butler]

(Replying from closed thread:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...91#post2527491

I started a few months ago and right now im in S1 Angel/s4 of Buffy. Ive been alternating discs; Buffy disc 1/Angel disc 1 and so on. You only need to do this for B S4 and A S1 from what I hear.

I have a BIG crush on Charisma Carpenter so I am partial to Cordy. But Giles has to my my favorite of all. You cant beat his dry British humor.

 

[Dax P]

I made a Buffy/Angel crossover list for a friend awhile back, and thought I would cut/paste it here, since the subject comes up every so often:

Buffy 4, Angel 1 (1999-2000)
-
Buffy 4.3 Harsh Light of Day
precedes Angel 1.3 In The Dark (in which Oz goes to LA to give Angel a gift from Buffy, but Spike follows...).

Angel 1.7 Bachelor Party (sets up--)
Buffy 4.8 Pangs (Angel's in Sunnydale, and then--)
Angel 1.8 I Will Remember You (Buffy's in LA).

Buffy 4.16 Who Are You? (the great Buffy/Faith body switch episode, leading to--)
Angel 1.18 Five By Five (Faith's in LA)
Angel 1.19 Sanctuary (Buffy follows)
Buffy 4.20 The Yoko Factor (Angel's in Sunnydale)

--

Buffy 5, Angel 2 (2000-2001)
-
Buffy 5.7 Fool For Love
Angel 2.7 Darla (not a 'crossover', really, but these two share flashbacks and thematic elements, and purposely aired on the same night...)

Angel 2.11 Redefinition (Drusilla leaving LA precedes--)
Buffy 5.14 Crush (her arrival back in Sunnydale)

Angel 2.12 Blood Money (isn't a 'crossover', but a Buffy character from 2.7 and 3.1 turns up on Angel and recurs there a few more times...)

Angel 2.17 Disharmony (Harmony goes to LA, Willow appears in a hilarious phone call with Cordy)

Buffy 5.17 Forever (Angel comes to Sunnydale after Joyce dies)

Buffy 5.22 The Gift (precedes--)
Angel 2.22 There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb (Willow cameos at the end with bad news)

--

Buffy 6, Angel 3 (2001-2002)
-
Angel 3.4 Carpe Noctem (Angel goes to meet Buffy)
Buffy 6.4 Flooded (Buffy goes to meet Angel)
We don't see their meeting, of course... different networks now, and they're uncooperative...

--

Buffy 7, Angel 4 (2002-2003)
-
Angel 4.13 Salvage, 4.14 Release, and 4.15 Orpheus feature Faith's return, and in the last one, Willow comes to pick her up, which continues into--
Buffy 7.18 Dirty Girls

Buffy 7.21 End of Days, 7.22 Chosen (Angel visits, briefly)

--

Angel 5 (2003-2004)
-
Spike and Harmony join the show (she's a 'guest' for most of the season, but becomes a 'regular' for awhile prior to cancellation). Andrew turns up a couple times.

 

[Ray H]

I started Netflixing Season 7 starting last week and have been watching it rather nonstop. So my thing's complete. I started in June and now have rewatched or just watched for the first time all of the Buffy and Angel episodes from the beginning. It was fun. Some of these I haven't seen since they first aired many years ago.

Anyway... I just wanted to pop in to say that the last episode feels right to me. When I first saw it when it originally aired, it felt a bit disappointing. But after watching the last two discs after close succession, it works. Episodes 20 & 22 setup an emotional place for the characters and it's generally payed off in the last episode. My favorite moment was when Buffy, Xander, and Willow have their moment walking through the Sunnydale High hallway one last time. It's poignant and brings back some fond memories. That's not to say I was completely satisfied with the last episode. I'm still wondering why the heck it was necessary for them to kill Anya so matter-of-factly
but as a show ender, works.

Also, I think Faith's character would've been so much better if they just deleted the unnecessary yo's from everyone of her lines. That's just so 1999 of them.

 

[Matt Butler]

Is it Beer Bad or Superstar that Joss was apologizing for in S4?

I didnt like Superstar but Beer Bad was kinda funny.

 

[Matt Stone]

I think the Joss apology was just a joke. That being said, I hope he was apologizing for Beer Bad. Hate that episode, but got a kick out of the Jonathan-centric Superstar. Loved the opening credits changes.

 

[Joshua_W]

Speaking of S4, I liked "Beer Bad" better than either "Superstar" or "Where the Wild Things Are."

I loved seeing Will shoot down Parker. Classic Willow scene. And cave Buffy was kind of hot.

(Though WTWTA did have Giles singing "Behind Blue Eyes" which was cool. But that's the only good thing about that episode.)

 

[Ray H]

Come to think of it, there was one episode that I ended up taping but didn't get around to seeing. From the plot description, I think it's Where the Wild Things Are.

I personally though Superstar was a fun episode. I didn't like Beer Bad. It and maybe Wrecked from S6 are my least favorite episodes,

 

[Matt Butler]

Posted this in another thread:

Speaking of Buffy earlier in this thread; I listened to the commentary on the S4 finale "Restless" Joss Wedon gave away a spolier for an event later in the series.
Buffys mom dies



Im watching the entire series for the first time!!

 

[Robert Ringwald]

I'd advise you to not watch the commentaries for any of the other seasons... they were recorded during seasons 6 and 7's production for most of the other DVD sets... which means a lot of spoilers.

 

[Holadem]

I knew it going in. It will still shock the hell out of you when it happens.

--
H

 

[Romier S]

Matt,

While it's a really crappy spoiler to find out through a commentary, I doubt it will kill the effectiveness of the episode itself. It's one of the best, if not *THE* best Buffy episode out there.

 

[Matt Stone]

Gotta agree with Romier. I knew it when I watched the episode, and it didn't hurt it a bit. Fantastic hour of television.