Bose wins again!!! (1 Viewer)

[Mark R O]

Bose - The most litigious corp. in the electronics industry.
The in-house legal dept. has more personel than R&D.
But who needs those geek research/design types and all that hard arithmatic when you've got a million $ law firm to plunder patents?
Here is prime example of their methods...
A few years ago two very talented, dedicated gentlemen with history changing contributions to the audio industry started a small amplifier company. They had a design they felt certain would challange all but the most ridiculous strato-buck units, and have few peers in the under 5k dollar market. Not to mention it only cost $1999.00. Located in their home town of Boston, they chose to call the company Bostronics. Well, the amp got phenomenal reviews and critical acclaim and orders far exceeded expectations. ENTER BOSE. Seems that the name Bostronics was obviously a blatant attempt to sound like "Bose Electronics". Or so sayeth the law corp. of "Bose, Baloney and Liars." Suit was filed for astronomical damages, dropped if Bostronics would "cease and desist" business under that name. This newly formed company had the choice to fight and probably win, but it would take 3-4 years and fees approaching 6 figures. Instead, all the boxes, literature, documents, address and phone books, faceplates and finance paperwork had to be re-done. Not to mention all the glowing press and public recognition was now worthless. This should have been a fatal blow. But sometimes, good does triumph over evil, and now that small company has grown into a leading industry manufacturer with an extensive product line. The company is now known as Sherbourn.

 

[Robert_Gaither]

Actually the logic argument mistake that most make (freq response, build quality, and sound quality) are not what people should argue to disuade Bose buyers but simply point out things such as NO movie theater uses them, NO professional sound studioes uses them (this includes both music and sfx studioes), and NO major label band uses these for tours. Then point out the following the brands most used by professionals are JBL (mostly touring bands and some studioes), and M&K (most sfx studioes), and B&W (a decent amount of music studioes and NASA for critical listening). Then point out that all AV forum sites that Bose is looked down severely on and what this adds up to is that it's not used in professional settings (movie theaters and concerts), not used by sound engineers (to mix music and sfx), and most of all looked down by hobbyists then why should they decide to still want to buy them (add to the fact that we all have a hobby and have seen people who don't know and try to buy acceptance of those in the know but buy things that only a sucker would buy should embarass enough people not to buy them)? The easiest and most logical argument I make against the Bose "sound-reflecting" is "gee that's funny, since it seems all movie theaters and sound mixers listening stations use treated rooms to eliminate all reflections due to their sound degrading effects". I've wasted a lot of time arguing with people in the past on this very subject but I do still feel obligated to still point people onto a more logical path to pick their gear vs just buying Bose because it gives them respect among their ignorant peers.

I don't understand why people don't do a little research at forums for any half-way decent (meaning above $1000 purchase) product to make certain they get the quality for the money items. I've learned a long ago that most hobbyists generally are quite knowledgeable, honest, and influenced less by marketting and definitely less bias than almost every manufacturers.

 

[Levesque]

Reading everything here, I can't stop thinking about the directors, VP, president, or any high salary dude, and thinking that they probably LAUGH about all the money they make on behalf of those poor (rich...) persons that bought their speakers. Imagine how much money they do! driving luxury cars, big dream houses... All this selling a really below average product with a well above average price...

Imagine the Bose president reading this thread...he must laugh so loud that the marble wall in is office are probably echoing with a surround sound...

The owners are probably some of the most intelligent people we will never know, and reading everything here, it's quite an accomplishment what they did. Capitalizing on ignorance.

Even if I would never buy a Bose product, I have to admit that those dudes knew what they were doing... It's the best proof of the sheer strenth of a well-done publicity campaign.

Those dudes are probably laughing their heart out reading our posts!

 

[ShaneH]

Not sure if its been mentioned yet, but Nuance fits in the same catergory as bose. I believe Nuance is mostly sold in Canada, and apparently made of garbage drivers, with no price tags on the speakers. I've heard a 10 grand Nuance system with towers all around, and wasnt very impressed, my $2k system sounder better, just not as much bass.

 

[Dan Lindley]

I think I read in this thread or elsewhere that Bose has some 500 engineers. Is this true? What do they all do?

(this shouldn't include sanitation engineers, desk input/output flow engineers, and the like...)

Dan

 

[Jeremy Little]

I think I read in this thread or elsewhere that Bose has some 500 engineers. Is this true? What do they all do?

Go golfing and rake in the cash. The only people who work hard for Bose are the ones who consistently come up with new ads and the ones who ship the stuff off.

I hooked up an AM15 cube straight to an amplifier and did an A/B comparison with a modestly priced JBL speaker (N24). If somebody wants Bose, that's fine. But I always make sure that those speakers are what they really want. Why would you buy Bose once you've heard the terrible sound for the ENORMOUS price?

 

[terence]

Let's face it many people who buy Bose get them for the so call name status or i heard they sound good. You also can always tell a Bose owner because they start protecting their Bose like a mother protects her child.

 

[Brian Fitterman]

I live pretty close to the Boston area where Bose is based out of. I am also pretty friendly with alot of the sales guys at the local Tweeter. Alot of them have been recruted recently to work for Bose as tech support people. I never hear any them talking about an engineering staff. They must have one, but I doubt it is very large. They do not have the product base for that.

Also, guess what kind of system these support guys have? Not Bose!!! They did not like them, but they could sell them. They stated carrying them a few years back and I made funny comment about how could they do that...The sales guy (who has been selling for over 20 years - not all at tweeter) said, we HAVE to. Too many people come in looking for them and walk out when we do not have them. He said most of the time it is a usless venture to try and sell them something else, that is what they want, and thats all there is too it. They do not want to even listen to anything else.

Its a "keep up with the Jones" thing. Status symbol. "LOOK, I have a BOSE system! Arn't you impressed!!!"

When you try to confront them, they look at you and say "Oh you are one of those audiophiles who thinks BOSE suck. Well I like them so shut up!" or somthing like that. I have learned to leave it alone. If I can help someone BEFORE the deed is done, I will but if I hear someone saying I just bought, or I have, I leave it at that and just nod my head.

 

[Brian Ruth]

Here are some jewels from the Epinions consumer review site:
Regarding the Lifestyle 12 ($1,299)
First review:
:: SIGH ::

 

[Jeff Ery]

The easiest and most logical argument I make against the Bose "sound-reflecting" is "gee that's funny, since it seems all movie theaters and sound mixers listening stations use treated rooms to eliminate all reflections due to their sound degrading effects". I've wasted a lot of time arguing with people in the past on this very subject but I do still feel obligated to still point people onto a more logical path to pick their gear vs just buying Bose because it gives them respect among their ignorant peers.

I don't understand why people don't do a little research at forums for any half-way decent (meaning above $1000 purchase) product to make certain they get the quality for the money items. I've learned a long ago that most hobbyists generally are quite knowledgeable, honest, and influenced less by marketting and definitely less bias than almost every manufacturers.
.,. quote .,.

Please don't misconscrew this as a defense of Bose (although they do have a place in the industry), but as has been pointed out byu many before what works well for professional and commercial applications is not the same as what works well in the home. The way a theater treats it's walls and deals with reflections is not like most people will do in their homes and I ,as I think all of us , could give dozens of examples of companies that made great commercial products but whose cosumer goods sucked....AND as for marketing, I always wonder how we assume that we aren't being marketed to as Hobbyists here on the forums, I have heard of firms doing this ...everyone spins their own preferances....but I suppose we could go and listen to the Bose vs. other stuff and make up our own minds....

 

[carl_b_byrne]

I don't thinks its fair to call some one an idiot or dumb for buying bose. The people who do buy are usually the uninformed. Ones who want surround just because. Sure, 5 minutes of research will show what crap the speakers are, but alot of people dont have the time or resources. Bose are crap, but I would never condemn someone for buying them.

 

[ChristopherBer]

Gosh you guys must really hate my Bose Acoustimass 15.:frowning:
I know most of you guys hate or maybe all of you but commont can't you guys be nice somewhat?

 

[Michael R Price]

All these things are true, but I've got a question for you guys.

I'm relatively ignorant about a lot of other things, so why is it wrong when someone doesn't care so much about the sound of their stereo and decides to buy Bose? Isn't it OK if we pay little attention to the quality of something else expensive, like a computer? After all, it's our own loss.

 

[Chris Quinn]

Oops, impatient with the submit and double posted.

 

[Chris Quinn]

It is bose marketing and mark up that gets us so riled up. People think that they are getting the best there is and are showing them off as a status symbol from the marketing. The mark up for some 2 inch paper cones that cost Bose about a buck each upsets me too.
We have nothing against someone who goes and listens to say five systems in the same price and decides Bose is for them. Of course that person is purely hypothetical.

 

[Andre Barros]

Last week I was reading a car review in one of the major car publications and the author gave the car an excellent review. At one point he said "The sound of the engine is so fantastic that you even forget about the Bose stereo." Clearly these guys know a lot about cars and not enough about stereo Anyway, just a comment.
André

 

[Lee Scoggins]

They price their gear at a rather high price for what you get, and yet people are willing to pay it for "perceived" quality and brand name recognition.

A lot of companies do this luxury pricing. Armani suits are also way overpriced for their level of quality (middling at best).
The high end industry has done a poor job of banding together to promote audio systems at all price points. At almost any price point, one can do better. You just have to have a good independent dealer nearby and do a little research but therein lies the problem...
For some reason in this great country, we will spend weeks analyzing a car purchase but will talk to a few friends before a major stereo purchase. Bose constantly is on TV and in the papers and magazines. But people don't realize that it just means big marketing budgets and low quality engineering which translates to poor driver parts and crap sound. Somehow they have managed their brand into something of status like a SubZero fridge.
Sound professionals using Bose? I have worked in over twelve recording studios and have yet to see any Bose gear...
I think the best we can do as music lovers is just bring our friends over and let them hear what a real stereo sounds like.

 

[MikeRP]

WOW!

I can tell you guys love BOSE!

Well, I was one of those uninformed 7 years ago when I purchased a Bose AM-10 system and a Kenwood prologic receiver, on close out from Bose.

I actually THOUGHT it was pretty good for VHS movies at the time. But, I became increasingly upset with the Music of the system as I was used to a vintage Pioneer SX-1080 receiver and JBL L 100 or 110s (can't remember which now).

Anyway, I bought a Def Tech sub hoping it would solve the bass problem (which it did) but the music really got no better.

So, I gave up but kept going to outlet stores. I suspicioned the receiver not the bose was causing the problem. So, at the same Bose store I bought and Onkyo
595 receiver for $300 bucks on close out.

Well, got it home and it made a HUGE difference. I thought those Bose were actually listenable now. Well, about that time I discovered this forum and one other. So, I had 3 months to try out the Onkyo and then I got talked into trying a HK520 and loved it even more.

But, I took both of them back and ended up with this system.

Pioneer 45TX
Pioneer DVR 7000
Paradigm Studio 40s
Paradigm Studio CC
Paradigm Studio ADPs
Toshiba 57HDX82
Toshiba SD-2200 DVD (purchased a few years ago)
Def Tech Pro 100 sub

So, I guess I embarked on this real HT journey in June of last year. I thank everyone here on this forum and others for helping me spend $7000 the last year. My wife's getting a little impatient with me. I love this forum!

But, don't go hard on Bose owners - most of them are really searching for the best - they just don't know where to get it and frankly Bose makes it easy. I have to search for a Pioneer Elite dealer.

I tried to talk with a guy the other day in a Circuit City and he was telling me the wonders of the 701 Bose speaker. He thought I was nuts when I said there was better out there (in a really nice way) and walked off.(Never heard of Paradigm).

So, you guys can bash Bose all you want but maybe we better be complaining to our own favorite high end companies and ask WHY they can't do a better job of marketing.

Bose whips their A__ Hands Down. Bose will never get better until our favorite companies get better and I really think its in the best interest of HT in general that Bose is forced into offering better products.

Mike

 

[ericLee]

My family are Bose idiots too. When I got my dahlquist qx setup my parents were like why did you get this unknown company, was it made in China? You have to get a good company like Bose or sony. When i got a marantz reciever they commented that i should hagve gotten something more well known like a sony. And when i got a HK dgvd player my brother said if it's a gvood company how come i'gve negver heard of it. :rolleyes

 

[Steve Owen]

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