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BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by David Von Pein, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    You can watch Bugliosi's talk about his book (recorded for C-SPAN on the seventh floor of the Texas School Book Depository) here.

    For those who don't have the time to read his half-million words (plus supplmental material on CD-ROM) there is the ABC News Special Report marking the 40th anniversary of the assassination, Beyond Conspiracy. (Available on DVD.)

    This show used the Dale Myers computer recreation of the shooting along with the Zapruder film and a live re-enactment to bury all the "major" points of the conspiracy theorists, the ones that the general public gets from movies like JFK and television trash like The Men Who Killed Kennedy. Bugilosi takes on the thousands of books, pamphlets and websites that have been peddling the conspiracy poison, and refutes them in great detail. The ABC special is a more compact response to the more superficial treatment the case gets in visual media.

    Also there's the fact that if you simply present what did happen and lay out all the evidence that supports that clear sequence of events, you really shouldn't have to refute the conspiracy theorist, who simply weave fantasies out of non-facts, and which all required ignoring well-established facts. (90% of books on the shooting spend almost no time at all discussing Oswald and you won't even find the name "Tippet" in the index of the vast majority of them. The policeman's murder and Oswald's obvious guilt would have to be explained, if acknowledged, and that doesn't fit with the "patsy" role that most theories assign to the actual assassin.)

    On the more general topic of conspiracy theories, their origins, their historical connections and the ideas and characteristics they share in common, you might find the Daniel Pipes book Conspiracy a terrific resource. (Lots of stuff on the Masons and the Templars, by the way, Dave. [​IMG]) British humorist Jon Ronson's Them: Adventures with Extremists is another look that looks at conspiracy, albeit in a quirkier way and primarily through encounters with contemporary believers in various conspiracies. (Sometimes believers in several, often contradictory, conspiracy theories.)

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  2. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    REVISED & UPDATED.

    (Oswald's still as guilty as ever, however. That part will never change. It's just that the review is a little prettier now.) [​IMG]
     
  3. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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    Thanks for the link, Joe. I was amused by the Amazon reviews of those who hate the book.
     
  4. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    For anyone who might be interested.....

    Here's my revised "KENNEDY PHOTO ALBUM". Some rarely-seen photos in here. Click on most images to enlarge them.
     
  5. Greg_S_H

    Greg_S_H Executive Producer

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    You've changed your name! It's a conspiracy! [​IMG]
     
  6. Paul D G

    Paul D G Screenwriter

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    I was listening to talk radio the other day and a caller called in to ask the host's opinions on some film that attempts to prove the gov't was behind the 9/11 events. After the call this book was briefly mentioned and the host said (paraphrasing) "How come we don't have any faith in our government to do ANYthing right, everything they do is a screw up, yet they're miraculously able to orchestrate intricate cover-ups like 9/11 and the Kennedy Assassination without a shred of evidence or whistle blowers ever coming out? Watergate. That was a real government cover-up and look how screwed up that was. That's how the US government performs covert conspiracies."

    -paul

    BTW - I had started reading this book the very day the Review here was posted. I'm a few pages in to the Warren Commission section. The Four Days in November section is, indeed, excellent.
     
  7. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    Yes. That seems to be the case.

    And most conspiracy theorists fail to use any sort of ordinary common sense when attempting to evaluate the large-scale "plot" that supposedly was swirling around President Kennedy in 1963.

    For example, Oliver Stone (and Jim Garrison too, of course) peddles the most idiotic "Single Patsy" assassination plot imaginable to the American movie-going audience -- a plot so intricate and complicated and peril-filled to be utterly cartoonish in nature after just a cursory examination of it.

    Stone and Garrison (and many other "CTers") want the masses to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was being set up well in advance of JFK's murder. But then, on game day (11/22/63), the covert plotters decided they would virtually ruin their whole PRE-arranged SOLO-patsy frame-up by shooting John Kennedy from three different directions, using three different rifles, of course.....thereby ensuring the failure of the one-patsy plot immediately.

    Maybe the other two non-Depository gunmen were deliberately trying to miss the target...ya think? [​IMG]

    And the most amazing part about Stone's film is -- a large pct. of people actually ACCEPT that theory as what truly happened in Dealey Plaza.

    Is common sense really that uncommon? When the JFK case is isolated, I guess the answer to that question is a firm Yes.

    http://www.google.com/group/alt.cons...e70f88404a998b
     
  8. Ed Moroughan

    Ed Moroughan Second Unit

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    Agree very much. This is what I always say to anyone who sticks to the "it's a conspiracy": no two people who've committed a crime can keep their mouths shut, and not sell each other out (ie Michael Vick) but YOU want ME to believe that millions and millions of conspiring cronies can. I don't think so!
     
  9. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    When the Stone film came out I remember reading an article by a guy who was in the New Orleans D.A.'s office at the time and forced to work on the Garrison "investigation". He said he would someday like to see someone make a movie about what Garrison's three-ring circus was really like, but that, "you could never cast the film. The Three Stooges are all dead." [​IMG]


    The best line about Michael Vick came from a comedian (feel bad because I didn't catch the name) who was on the "Bob and Tom Show" recently:

    "I don't know what kind of dog trainer Vick was, but whoever taught his co-defendents how to roll over sure is a genius."
     
  10. Ed Moroughan

    Ed Moroughan Second Unit

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    Plus we didn't land on the moon, and yet the Soviets didn't seem to mind that we lied. Odd, but I guess even Communists can be bribed, or are they all in on it...LOL
     
  11. Paul McElligott

    Paul McElligott Screenwriter

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    The CIA had pictures of Brezhnev betting on dog fights.
     
  12. Jeff_CusBlues

    Jeff_CusBlues Supporting Actor

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    Followed by hysterical laughter.....I like the Bob and Tom show a lot, but never get to hear it anymore since I listen to XM. Sorry for the diversion.
     
  13. Chuck Mayer

    Chuck Mayer Lead Actor

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    In my many philosophical discussions, I've learned that a vast majority of people believe what they want to believe. It's that simple.

    People will believe in the JFK (or 9/11, or Moon Landing) conspiracy simply because it fits their worldview. It makes them feel smarter, or more reasonable, or lets them stick it to the "man" in their own little way.

    The quotes above summarize the fallacy of that 95% of the time. The US government, in any incarnation (not just the current one) is incapable of such deception. Willing, certainly. Capable...not at all.

    Occam's Razor is a nice thing to live by. We should certainly be willing to question what we believe, including those of us who debunk the major conspiracy theories. We should approach them all with skepticism to established facts and open minds. But evidence carries weight. We should use that to reason out events, not our own bundle of collected opinions and hypocrisies [​IMG]

    Great posts, DVP. Nerd.
     
  14. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    In a recent radio appearance, "Reclaiming History" author Vincent Bugliosi provided the following tidbit of information concerning the proposed Tom Hanks-produced 10-hour cable-TV mini-series to be based on Bugliosi's 2007 JFK book.....

    "I asked {Tom} Hanks, when do you want this {10-hour mini-series} to come out, and he said 2010. And I said, I'm glad you said 2010, because if you'd have said 2008, I'd be worried. ... If he had said 2008, I would have known that he couldn't have done justice to it. But he wants to make it something that's going to shake up America. And I think it is." -- Vincent Bugliosi; July 23, 2007; Via Radio Interview on KTLK-FM, Minneapolis, Minnesota

    =================

    The entire 39-minute KTLK radio interview with Vince can be accessed below:

    http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...072307_6pm.mp3

    http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...goryId=14&cs=1

    http://www.google.com/group/alt.cons...8f15434aff2c26
     
  15. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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  16. Henry Gale

    Henry Gale Producer

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    Oswald & I had the same rifle training.
    When I looked out a window of the School Book Depository into Dealey Plaza I thought it looked like an easy shot.
     
  17. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    Tom Clancy said the same thing when he first got a look at the view from the sniper's nest. He also suggested that all the controversy about the Carcano's scope and how accurate it was is beside the point because Oswald probably didn't use the scope - at that distance, with a clear shot at a virtually motionless target the open metal sights would have been more than enough for a good shot.

    (And Oswald, of course, was a good shot. He was arguably merely "average" by Marine Corps standards, but that translates to "damned good" in the civilian world. Even when he was getting ready to leave the Corps, and had little motivation to shoot well, he got a passing score on his last proficiency test with a rifle. And he spent months dry-firing the Carcano for hours a day leading up to his attempted murder of Gen. Walker - another event most conspiracy books totally ignore - and again before the Kennedy killing.)

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  18. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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  19. Henry Gale

    Henry Gale Producer

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    For those unfamiliar with the Marine Corp rifle/pistol rankings:
    Marksman (fair)
    Sharpshooter (better)
    Expert (best)
     
  20. Dave Hahn

    Dave Hahn Second Unit

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    Charles Whitman, the infamous sniper who killed 14 and wounded 31 others at the University of Texas at Austin in 1966, was also a former U.S. Marine.

    From the film Full Metal Jacket
     

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