Boo Hoo! My Sony MDS-JA555ES minidisc deck goes in for repair tomorrow. :o( (1 Viewer)

[KeithH]

Kevin, the 'JA555ES does not offer MDLP, while the 'JA333ES does. That's a feature that I really don't need, though if I had it, I'd probably play around with it out of curiosity.

I appreciate your pointing the differences between the 'JA333ES and the 'JA555ES. I have not researched the 'JA333ES too closely and was not aware that the 'JA333ES has just one power supply. You have me curious as to how big a difference there is between the sound quality of the two players using the analog outputs, which is how I used the 'JA555ES. Hmmm....

Regarding the Sony pro decks, according to Sony's web site, the MDS-E10 and 'E12 use ATRAC Type-R, offer MDLP, have a PC keyboard input, and sport 24-bit A/D and D/A converters. A couple key differences between the two models is that the 'E12 adds balanced outputs and an RS-232 input. Also, the 'E10 has both coaxial and optical digital inputs and outputs, while the 'E12 has coaxial inputs and outputs only.

I went to a Sam Ash store today, and unfortunately, they had no pro MD decks on display. They had the Sony 'E10 in the back, but I was not going to have them take one out of a box since I was not going to buy one. Besides, they were selling it for $459, while Oade Bros. quoted me $425 for it. They didn't have the Tascam unit either, though they can get it. Interestingly, they quoted me $399 for it, which beats Oade Bros. quote of $415.

Based on what I have read about the pro decks having more robust transports than consumer decks, I am definitely intrigued by the pro decks. However, the fact that the Sony pro models only weigh 6.5 lbs. concerns me. Even the Sony MDS-JE470, which is a $180 entry-level consumer model, weighs more. Of course, weight does not in and of itself translate to quality sound. It should be noted that no musician or recording engineer, whom pro decks are designed for, want a 33-lb. or 24-lb. MD deck. Given that they transport such components from one venue to another constantly, weight is likely to be a major issue. So, the lighter, the better. Rack mounting heavy components would probably be a pain as well. I'm sure these practical issues have a lot to do with why the pro decks are so slim (the Sony decks are only 1.75" tall) and light. Looking at it from the other side of the equation, it is the audiophiles, whom the ES decks are designed for, who are often impressed by heavy components. Of course, audiophiles are not likely to transport their components all over creation.

In all of this, I think it makes sense that the pro decks are lightweights from the standpoint of practicality in everyday use by the intended clientele. However, I can't help but wonder, as I think about it more, whether that is a reflection of a poor design from a sonic standpoint.

 

[Rachael B]

Keith, I don't think there is too much difference between MD transports sound wise. I've hooked them up to my Denon DA-500 D/A converter to keep D/A conversion as a constant. I've had the following Sony's hooked up: 510, 520, 920 & the Elite MJ-17D & a friend brought over his Denon MD, the model # I do not remember. When you skip the player's D/A's they all sound quite similar on MD's made from CD's over digital connections.
I think the biggest difference in players is the quality of their analog inputs. I've come to believe the analog recording on the 510 & 520 is a little subpar. The 920's analog section is better as are the D/A's if you have to use them. I feel certain that the Pioneer's analog section is very, very good. I use it to archieve records. I got the Pioneer on e-bay last summer, cheap, when da bay was flooded with them. What a bargain! You should grab one if you can find one. I hate the remote and titling but otherwise it's great.
You might be able to get 2 MJ-17D's for what you'd pay for one of these pro models. One to stick in the closet for future use. I did that. I bought a second Pioneer on e-bay during December. I tested it and put it up. I'm firmly dedicated to MD. It's the best way to archieve vinnyl, and I have a ton of rare vinnyl. I hope to be listening to MD's for the rest of my life.
BTW, the only deck I've had trouble with is the 510. It had an MD jammed in it and required repair. I'm going to give it to one of my nephews on his birthday. Good luck with the Sony problem. Sony is an octapus that can't remember how many arms it has. Best wishes!

 

[KeithH]

Rachael, thanks for posting your thoughts here. When I discussed the difference between pro and consumer transports, I was not talking about sound for the most part. My main issue with the transports is relative robustness, and I have been told that the pro decks are more robust. Since I use a stereo integrated amp, I do not use the digital outputs on any digital components, so the quality of the DAC and analog output stage in an MD deck is important. I do question whether the pro models are as good as the ES models in this regard.

I have considered the Pioneer Elite MJ-17D, but it is getting to be very hard to find. There was a time when you could count on there being four or five brand new units available on eBay from varying sellers for $250 or less, but those days have passed. If I do see one available, I will consider it.

Regarding the recording quality of various MD decks, I have read that the Sony 'JA333ES and 'JA555ES give better recordings from CDs than lesser expensive models such as the 'JB930 and 'JB940. In the time I used the 'JA555ES, I did not spend time comparing recordings it produced to those from my 'JB930 or MXD-D3. All I do know is that all MDs sounded great in the 'JA555ES. For the money, the 'JB930 is nothing to sneeze at though.

I am not surprised to hear that you had problems with the 'JE510. That model was most certainly a dud.

 

[Rachael B]

Keith, I bought the 510 to record sound effects for my cheesy TV show and to see what MD was like. When I made my first MD of music, I was hooked. It lasted over 3 years before it broke. I used it hard too. I put an MD in it one day and it didn't go in right. It sat there making noise trying to complete the loading. I had to unplug it to make the noise quit. I took the top off and decided I couldn't fix it. It cost me $75 to get it fixed. I hope it was worth it?
I have a Hafler analog pre in my studio, where I make my MD's mostly. I could use the D/A's of the components but I like the Denon's sound just fine. If and when I decide I don't like it I'll get another D/A converter. It's cheaper to have one D/A converter than to pay for them over and over in source components. Atleast that's how I feel about it. The Sony 520 & 920 sound great thru the Denon. I think the D/A conveter is nearly all that matters with the MD format.
I considered the ES MD players but they didn't seem worth the money since I really didn't need their D/A converters. I got my 920 for $299, so I've really done well on prices for my MD fun. Good luck, again, in dealing with Sony and their baloney! Best wishes!

 

[KeithH]

:frowning: I have requested that Sony either replace my 'JA555ES with the 'JA333ES (since the 'JA555ES is no longer available) or buy it back from me so I can go out and buy a new deck. I made this request about ten days ago or so, after my second (failed) trip to Bristol. Well, my contact at Sony Corporate called me this evening and said Sony will not replace my deck with a new one and will not buy it back. They said that since I am not satisfied with Bristol, I can take the 'JA555ES to a non-Sony authorized repair center in my area. One is in Wilmington, DE, which is about 20 miles from me. The other one is in Media, PA, which is too far for me to drive. I told my contact at Sony that the offer was unacceptable. She is going to have a supervisor call me tomorrow to discuss the situation. Sony's answer to this problem is to send me to a non-Sony service center because the Sony service center screwed up, twice! In theory, the Bristol facility should be most qualified to fix my 'JA555ES, and they couldn't do it. Now I'm supposed to entrust a non-Sony service center? How many ES MD decks could a non-Sony service center possibly get? Frankly, I think Sony's offer to me makes them look really bad. They have conceded that Bristol can't fix the deck, so I should go outside of Sony. I am afraid I am fighting a losing battle here. My contact at Sony Corporate seemed to really understand my situation, and she said she would go to bat for me. Unfortunately, she doesn't make the decisions. I see Sony telling me to take their offer or lump it, which means I see myself out over $800 on my 'JA555ES. :frowning:

 

[Philip Hamm]

That's a shame, they should stand behind their high end products better than that. And just when I was starting to love the MiniDisc format again (see my thread in the "Separates" section).

 

[KeithH]

Philip, I agree that Sony should stand by their high-end products better than this. It is absolutely pitiful. In any event, I found a dealer who has a brand new Pioneer Elite MJ-17D MD deck (sealed box) at a great price. I should probably go ahead and buy it. However, I will wait until tomorrow to see if the manager at Sony calls me. Maybe, just maybe, Sony will do the right thing. If the manager doesn't come through for me tomorrow, I will buy the Pioneer unit.

I read your post on the Separates boards. I'm glad someone here is enjoying MD these days. Actually, I am still enjoying the 'JB930 in my second system.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Keith- Not possible to send it to a Sony repair center *not* near you?

 

[KeithH]

Kevin, sure, it is possible for me to send the deck to a different Sony repair center, but I'm not sure I have any reason to expect any better service. Besides, I feel this situation needs special attention, and it would be very difficult for me to communicate exactly what needs to be done by phone. With Bristol, I could get in the car and bring the deck right over. Anyway, there is still a dent in the side of the unit, the front panel needs to be replaced again, and the drawer is still screwed up. The drawer needs to be replaced. I am just sick of going through the hassle of trying to get my deck fixed. I don't consider a remote Sony service center a viable solution. What a pain in the ass.

 

[KeithH]

Matthew, no question the situation is frustrating. The obvious problem with giving up on Sony and cutting my losses with the 'JA555ES, is that if I still want an MD deck, and I do, there are not a lot of options outside of Sony. When it comes to home components, the only other decks I can get new are from Tascam, TEAC, and Pioneer. First off, Pioneer is no longer producing MD decks, but the Elite MJ-17D comes up brand new on eBay for $200-250 every so often. TEAC makes a couple MD decks in their Reference Series. Finally, Tascam, the pro division of TEAC, makes two pro MD decks, only one of which is priced reasonably.

I am concerned about how good the TEAC decks are because if you have ever seen their Reference Series components, they are very small. They look cute and all, but I question if they are any good. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think of TEAC when it comes to high-end audio. As for the Tascam deck, it seems to be a bit outdated. For example, it uses ATRAC 4.5, while Sony's current pro and consumer decks use the newer ATRAC Type-R. Admittedly, ATRAC 4.5 and ATRAC Type-R are considered by many to be similar in sound quality. Also, the Tascam unit uses 20-bit A/D and D/A converters, while the better Sony units use 24-bit converters. This doesn't mean the Sony units are necessarily better, but it seems like the Sony decks are more state-of-the-art.

The Pioneer Elite deck comes highly regarded by the few people I have come across who own it, so maybe that is my best non-Sony option. At $200-250, it looks to be a real bargain, seeing as it originally retailed for $800. I located a dealer who has a brand new unit available for $250, and I am making arrangements to buy it as I enter this post. Maybe the Elite deck will do the trick, but it is not an impressive unit from a construction standpoint as my 'JA555ES or the current 'JA333ES. However, if the Elite unit is reliable and sounds good, that's all that matters. Meanwhile, I am still waiting for a phone call from a manager at Sony. She left me a voice mail message today, and I left her one back. Maybe we'll talk tomorrow.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Keith- I think that ATRAC type R *is* level 4.5. Same thing.
And, I don't know if you knew this, but Tascam is the pro division of Teac. And, as far as the mini reference series from Teac, I have read a few reviews that quite amazingly said it was very good stuff. I know, looks like dinky components, but the tuner I saw reviewed rated in the top 10 tuners of all time! (They kept talking about McIntosh, and Marantz (old good Marantz) and Dynalab or somebody.)
(I looked at the reference series when I got my recent CD-R/RW machine. But was too dis-similiar looking from the rest of my components. So I ended up with a *purple* HHB!)
One thing: how much does the Pioneer Elite MD weigh compared to the Sony ES? Some Pioneer Elites are very well built (DV-09) and some are "cheaply" built (DV-05), but maybe performance is performance and weight doesn't matter. (But I don't believe that... )
And, I wondered about this before, but with the CD-R/RW machine you have, why keep MD? Do you use it for portability? To be honest, I am now in the process of copying all my MDs to CD-R and will then chuck the MD machine. I only ever used MD for archiving of vinyl, and copying individual tracks off of CDs I later get rid of. Obviously, CD-R isn't as user friendly a format as MD, but still better sound quality.

 

[KeithH]

Kevin, I have never read that ATRAC 4.5 and ATRAC Type-R are the same. It has been said on various web sites including minidiscussion.com that the two algorithms are comparable soundwise, but they are not said to be the same. Sony distinguishes these two versions of ATRAC with its various models. I have not read up on how the two versions differ, but they are said to differ.
Thanks for the information on the TEAC MD decks. If you re-read my previous post, you will see that I did refer to Tascam as the pro division of TEAC. In any event, the TEAC decks intrigue me, but like you, I find them too dissimilar in appearance to my other components.
As I recall, the Pioneer Elite MJ-17D weighs around 11 lbs. I have actually not seen one in person, but it is certainly not built up to the standards of the DV-09 or my PD-65 CD player, which weighs about 20 lbs. On the plus side, the MJ-17D has rosewood sidepanels. I like the rosewood from an aesthetic standpoint, and it seems that Pioneer has used the rosewood sidepanels over the years on its better Elite components. That's no longer true, however, as Pioneer has dropped the rosewood entirely.
It is true that I have CD burners, but I like the MD format. As you said, you can't beat the flexibility of MD, and I prefer it to CD for occasional portable use. While MD doesn't sound as good CD, MDs on my 'JA555ES sounded incredibly close, and my 'JB930 is no slouch either. Finally, I did not decide to voluntarily give up on MD. In other words, it's not like I decided to sell the 'JA555ES. I just want to get back something that I enjoyed and lost in my main stereo system -- MD. I spend a lot of time listening to CDs, SACDs, and DVD-Audio discs, but I do miss MD. It's a real shame that MD never caught on. It is a great format.

 

[Philip Hamm]

It is an incredible format. It's a damn shame I agree that it never caught on. I absolutely love the format, it is the slickest coolest sound format out there. And it's got everything the record companies want, audio compression that makes the recordings sound "worse" than the original (though honestly I can not tell the difference), no computer drives, SCMS copy protection. It also has everything that home recorders want: amazing flexibility, high fidelity, digital copying (under SCMS), editing functions, durability, shock protection, etc.

The only reason that I can think fo that it never caught on is that with the advent of the CD there just aren't that many home recordists out there any more. Unfortunately what we get is CD-R which is a barely servicable recording format when compared to MiniDisc (for audio only).

 

[KeithH]

Philip, very well said. Excellent points. MD is a great format, plain and simple. I still have my MXD-D3 and MDS-JB930 in my second system. If this B.S. with Sony goes on much longer, I will have to bring the 'JB930 to the main system. I'm tired of not having MD there. Hopefully I will get the Pioneer Elite deck soon.

 

[KeithH]

Matthew, I have a couple Pioneer components that have served me very well, including an Elite PD-65 CD player, so I expect the Elite MJ-17D to be a highly capable MD deck. I'm still waiting for an e-mail reply from the seller in order to complete the transaction.
I had a Tascam DAT deck for a few months between 2000 and 2001, and it was an outstanding product. If the Pioneer Elite MD deck doesn't work out for some reason, I will definitely look at a Tascam or TEAC model.
By the way, I am not expecting anything from Sony. What still saddens me is my suspicion that the Sony ES decks are the best around. :frowning:

 

[KeithH]

Matthew, that is a sad story. Sony probably just cleaned the laser lens on your CD changer. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't test it afterwards. I hope they returned your CD. :rolleyes

 

[Philip Hamm]

My brother Pat has a 3CD/MD combo from JVC that is really cool. It has both digital in and out and CD TEXT to MD and other neato features including a flip-up QWERTY keyboard on the remote. Unfortunately he has some usability issues and glitches with it. When comparing it to his Sony 920 (and other Sony models he's had) he likens his JVC to "using an Apple in a PC world". Neato. Actually, the MD format is not unlike the Apple MacIntosh in it's market penetration and niche.
MiniDisc has found a bit of a niche in professional radio broadcast where its obvious advantages shine. Denon makes a lot of the pro radio gear, and I would expect the TASCAM and SONY pro stuff to be ubiquitous there also.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Philip- Another downside to MD is that it's not as easy as with CD (CD-R/RW) to transfer tracks to a PC, do editing, sound shaping, whatever, and then transfer back to MD.

 

[MichaelP]

MatthewD, you said you recently got the HHb CDR-830, what is your opinion on it so far? I am interested in getting this unit over the Tascam. Is it really purple as seen on the web site?

Keith I hope something works out eventually from Sony for you, because I would hate to think that a multi giant company like Sony would really treat customers like that. What use is the 5 year ES warranty if you have to go through all the problems you've been through so far. I would hate to have my Sony 920 MD deck develope any problems now especially since it's not even an ES deck.

Thanks

 

[MichaelP]

Sorry Matthew D, that question should have been directed to Kevin C Brown with regards to the HHb CDR 830 unit.

Thanks.