Blu-ray and Apple (1 Viewer)

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten
We're saying the same thing bud. Bluray drive sales are great and all but they are only a part of the picture on how many people are actively buying and renting these films. Lets put it this way, digital rentals are big enough that Amazon wants into the crowded market already by bundling it in with Prime, and that HAS to be going to hurt their media sales, no?

I think most of this is talking at each other without a lot of real thinking about it. I assume that there will always be digital download media, purchase and rental. And as a rental media, digital is the clear favorite and should be. I don't think that detracts from pointing out that purchasing a title in HD via digital distribution is a very bad value. Any more then saying it's cheaper to buy a book at Barnes and Noble over Borders, etc. Competition works that way.

I think the only thing about this that gets most of us - and you've expressed this as well, Sam, is that nothing can really change the fact Apple won't do Bluray. If they do Blu now, it would be a total shock. And because of that decision, consumers who buy apple are less a choice that tons of other people have. It also means that those who have always used apple as a production means for basic video production work find that it isn't nearly as attractive if they can't create and test their product on a single machine.

Those things really don't have much to do with iTunes outside of the fact iTunes exist. Those things just have to do with options available (or in this case, not available) to the consumer, which is annoying.

 

[Sam Posten]

Agree with all of that. Jobs has said they are waiting for it to mature, I think that's a smokescreen and it won't happen even for pros any time soon. Like I said, NAB will be telling, if FCP next launches without serious bluray support and nobody goes ballistic condemning Apple for it, it's over.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

I don't have a mac, only PCs (two of which have BD players and one with a BD recorder). I get prompted to update iTunes more often than I get prompted to update my BD software, so I don't think it has anything to do with the customer experience. For whatever reason Apple has just decided that they don't want to offer BD drives. I think its a mistake and like Matt said they do risk the high end video segment. How hard would it be to include a drive in a prosumer video editing workstation? What I find comical about this whole thing is that during the HD format war when Apple announced support for BD everyone said that was it. Since Apple is on board its over! In the following years Apple has shipped exactly 0 BD drives to consumers. If only Alanis Morissette (available on iTunes!) was still composing Ironic it would make a great verse....

 

[Sam Posten]

Except her song contains zero instances of irony. Ironic, no? =p

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2003/jun/28/weekend7.weekend2

 

[Carlo_M]

Looks like data caps have taken their first online streaming victim (Netflix):

As we've agreed, Apple is all about control. As the internet providers in the USA all consider (or have begun implementing, in some cases) data caps and speed throttling, Apple is not going to be able to "control the experience" of its users because they don't have the final say in what those companies do.

As anyone who follows my spending pattern knows, I'm a huge Apple/Mac/Jobs fan, but if his argument against BD is that it's a bag of hurt, I'd argue that relying on downloadable content, especially with ISPs contemplating and implementing speed caps (and you know they will) is just trading one bag of hurt for another.

 

[Ted Todorov]

I get prompted to update iTunes more often than I get prompted to update my BD software.

Yes, but those two are hardly equivalent -- unless you have ethernet running into the back of your BD player (most people don't, I didn't) doing those upgrades, after being forced to by a BD that won't play otherwise, is exactly the kind of pain Jobso refers to. Running "Software Update" on my Mac involves no pain that I can detect.

 

[Carlo_M]

Ted - not sure what the threshold is for ISP throttling. I'm sure that's an insider secret they'd be loathe to give away. I do wonder how ubiquitous that workflow you're describing is, setting up overnight batch downloads for viewing over the next few days. I'm sure it comes second nature for those of us weaned on the Internet and used to doing massive downloads, but it's quite a bit different than the near instant-gratification of either going to your local rental place or box store and bringing home a movie to watch that evening. Fast streaming could satisfy that need, but again we'll have to see what the ISPs do in the months and years ahead.

I'm pretty sure Apple isn't going to move to buy an ISP. That would drain quite a bit of their cash reserve and put them in a marketplace that, quite frankly, I'm not sure they want to be in. Talk about a bag of hurt...running an ISP would fit that definition!

 

[Ted Todorov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
Pretty sure Apple isn't going to move to buy an ISP. That would drain quite a bit of their cash reserve and put them in a marketplace that, quite frankly, I'm not sure they want to be in. Talk about a bag of hurt...running an ISP would fit that definition!

Oh, I agree with you 100% -- I think it would be a more effective threat than reality. But were things to get bad enough, the way to avoid the bag of hurt would be to spin it off as a separate company -- a non-profit if possible. Ideally Apple would team with a bunch of companies sharing a similar interest -- like Amazon and Netflix, possibly even Google, and do the non-profit ISP as a joint venture.

No idea what the anti-trust implications are, certainly the incumbent ISPs would scream bloody murder, but similar cross company non-profit entities exist in other areas (financial trading clearing houses, for instance).

The horror that is Verizon in NYC with FIOS offered only in huge/new buildings for the foreseeable future and beyond, DSL pathetic in speed and quality, and the only real HIGH speed competition -- DOCSIS 3.0 from TWC is $100 per month, and according to the NY Times takes 3 weeks of trail and error to instal, makes me dream of unlikely things.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov
My general (perhaps mistaken) impression was that bittorrent but pretty much no one else gets clobbered. That said, Apple with its rapidly approaching $100 Billion cash hoard needs to at least consider or threaten to buy/become a nationwide ISP. That will end all discussion of data caps, throttling and other BS on the spot.

It would also open them up to a WHOLE new level of regulations with the FCC they get to completely sidestep right now, even as a cell phone maker (who just lives in the provider's bandwidth). They start providing and it gets interesting.

 

[Sam Posten]

Strong Words:

Except for DVD Studio Pro – due to Apple’s lack of support for BluRay discs, which is very unlikely to ever change, because they see the future in digital downloads, we most certainly won’t ever see a new version of DVD Studio Pro again.

http://ninofilm.net/blog/2011/04/23/nab-1-final-cut-pro-x-introduction/#comments

 

[Ted Todorov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Posten
Strong Words:

http://ninofilm.net/blog/2011/04/23/nab-1-final-cut-pro-x-introduction/#comments

Apple is nothing if not famous for knifing software/hardware babies. DVD Studio Pro is hardly as big a deal, customer base size-wise as the killing of Front Row in Lion. I still don't quite understand what they expect to replace it -- third party software like Plex or XBMC or some new as yet unannounced Apple product like an AppleTV.app

I understand the impulse to force people to just buy the $99 AppleTV box, but what about small apartment dwellers who use their iMacs as TVs? Or the not insubstantial group that has MacMini (etc) hooked up directly to their TVs?

Frankly if Apple doesn't have a good answer Lion may be the very first version of Mac OS X, including the public beta, that I won't be a day one adopter of.

 

[DaveF]

Not having Front Row doesn't prevent you from watching video on the Mac.

Nor does removing seem to give any motivation for people to buy an AppleTV: as you say this only affects that super-niche of small apartment dwellers who use an iMac for a "TV". They wouldn't own an AppleTV, regardless, since it requires a TV to watch on. x2

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten
Strong Words:

http://ninofilm.net/blog/2011/04/23/nab-1-final-cut-pro-x-introduction/#comments

Again, I just don't understand this move. It's a small group, but a loyal and hardcore apple user base who are the key buyers of MacPros. The prosumer market, who are becoming more reliant on sending out finished, final copies in BD or DVD format used to be a big chunk of apple's hardcore base. Even ad agencies send media and produced finals to distributors in mini-BD or DVD format. Still, I would tell you for the production end, there is some furious excitement about FCX. But a lot of wait-and-see to see how some of the options play into it.. the price tag guarantees tons of people will take a shot at it because its no big risk if they don't like it

 

[Ted Todorov]

QuoteOriginally Posted by DaveF

Not having Front Row doesn't prevent you from watching video on the Mac.

Nor does removing seem to give any motivation for people to buy an AppleTV: as you say this only affects that super-niche of small apartment dwellers who use an iMac for a "TV". They wouldn't own an AppleTV, regardless, since it requires a TV to watch on. x2

I'm too lazy to Google, but days ago I saw a story saying 57% of Mac owners were big city dwellers- - far from being a super niche Mac owning apartment dwellers may be a majority or close to... This absolutely rings true to me -- look at what people are using in NY/SF/LA coffee shops -- overwhelmingly Macs -- that 90% PC market share must be coming from somewhere -- the outer burbs where you have McMansions instead of Macs...

And while, yes, you can watch video without Front Row, it combined with DVDPedia and/or EyeTV makes it way, way easier, and more "non-geek friendly"

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov
QuoteOriginally Posted by DaveF
I'm too lazy to Google, but days ago I saw a story saying 57% of Mac owners were big city dwellers- - far from being a super niche Mac owning apartment dwellers may be a majority or close to... This absolutely rings true to me -- look at what people are using in NY/SF/LA coffee shops -- overwhelmingly Macs -- that 90% PC market share must be coming from somewhere -- the outer burbs where you have McMansions instead of Macs...

My wager is the percentage of Mac users who use their Mac with FrontRow as their sole "TV" is vanishingly small. But I doubt if either of us has data to resolve this

(You're thinking of this: http://blog.hunch.com/?p=45344 )

 

[Ted Todorov]

We'll have to agree to disagree -- there is certainly enough of them to keep Elgato, Bruji and The Little App Factory in business.

 

[Sam Posten]

Leaked screenshot from Final Cut Pro X:

http://twitpic.com/5b74a3

 

[Carlo_M]

You're killing me, Sam!

Just wish Jobs & Co. would finally embrace the bag of hurt, because that's really the one hesitation I have before pulling the trigger on a new desktop Mac (that and the fact that the Mac Pro is overdue for a refresh, and currently the top of the line iMac competes with the entry level Pro).

I am waiting for the Pro because I want upgradability (the ability to swap in a Blu Ray drive if Apple ever adopts it), and multiple hard drives because I want internal mirror RAID for data backup, and a separate HD for Windows (don't like running virtualized Windows and want to keep it completely separate from the Apple portion in case something goes wrong with it).

 

[Sam Posten]

I don't have any faith that they will embrace factory DRMed movie playback, all i want is BTO support for burners.

 

[Ted Todorov]

If you have a MacPro you can install a Blu-ray drive already (or use an external one with any Mac) and use Toast, etc. to burn. If FCP will export the BD project for you, even if it won't burn it directly, you should be able to do so via Toast. It sounds to me like you are waiting for Apple's imprimatur rather than any practical feature.