Blackberry Reveals Torch (1 Viewer)

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo developed by HTC and not Google. Apple seems also content to leave the business market to RIM, meaning regardless of overall marketshare, it looks like RIM will be around for a while.

I think in the end, that's the reality. Which isn't good or bad, and I understand the negative. But it's what makes me laugh at the doom and gloom of Gizmodo. Gizmodo likes to think of themselves as journalists. But they resort to so much hyperbole, guesswork and just flinging rumors that they often fall into the category of "Sensationalist Gossip Monger" more then news

 

[Hanson]

Here's the Giz reveiw:


http://gizmodo.com/5604747/blackberry-torch-review?skyline=true&s=i


And the much, much more positive Crackberry review:


http://crackberry.com/blackberry-torch-9800-review


What I'm getting is, if you must have a Blackberry, this one is the best. But even so, if you're not married to Blackberry, it's pretty much lacking on every level.

 

[mattCR]

This from Crackberry sums it up:

AT&T told me that they conducted massive amounts of market research and identified a large group of people who simply need to have a physical keyboard. Furthermore, for these users, the killer app on their phone is people - they are are the CrackBerry addicts who are constantly on their device, communicating, socializing and sharing.

I will say this: someone comes out with a good Android phone that has a physical keyboard on ATT, and I will switch.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I've owned an iPod Touch 2G for a couple years before passing it to my wife after getting a BB Tour, and the only thing I miss all that much is the better music playback capabilities.

Yeah, there are various other things that are better about iOS, but I found that I'm really not an "app hound", which is a big selling point for iOS that's kinda lost on me. Most aspects of the "smart" phone itself that matters to me are equal-or-better on BBs than on iOS devices. Don't know about Android devices, but a good keyboard matters a lot (as Matt pointed out).

Even for web browsing, I don't necessary prefer mobile Safari over Bitstream Bolt or Opera Mini on a BB.

_Man_

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by mattCR

ActiveSync checks in cycles. Normally about every 5 minutes. ATT default for smartphones is 15 minutes. BES is instant. The moment it is delivered to your Exchange, it appears on your blackberry. While five minutes (a quick AS refresh) is short, instant is instant.

I think I'm going to say what Hanson said, and I don't know nothin' about nothin' when it comes to corporate email and handsets...


My iPhone shows new email simultaneous with desktop Outlook at work. Other iPhone users have said the same thing. Maybe all of the corporate network has a 5 min delay? But my understanding is that Exchange 'pushes' email to the iPhone instantly.

And while "Push" can be done, it requires a client that runs on your workstation at your office, etc. That kind of defeats the whole point.

And it has nothing to do with my personal computer. I'm connected to the corporate email server. My iPhone knows nothing about my desktop client.

 

[DaveF]

Some misc thoughts on BB and its role in life


A brother-in-law is an upper-level manager at a Fortune-500 type company (and crackberry addict). I've asked him about iPhones in the corporation. The answer is still the same: IT can't provide the necessary security with an iPhone, so they stay with BB. Neither of us knows enough about this stuff really understand the issue, but I think it is because the iPhone can access corporate wifi, while the BB is cell-signal only (???). But real or not, that perception will go a long ways to keeping BB entrenched in the corporate world.


My dad is BB user, and partner in a small firm (~15 employees). He's told me how using BB is expensive and difficult to setup for a small firm. Based on his comments, I can imagine small business owners -- who don't have the control-freak issues of Mega-Corps -- moving away from BB. And my dad, with his current BB on the fritz, is thinking about getting an Android phone shortly.


I was offered a BB at work two years ago. I looked at the phones and decided I'd rather pay for an iPhone out of my own pocket than suffer a free BB. And my unofficial use of an iPhone at work is sufficient for my email / calendar needs; I'm overloaded if I get 100 emails a week! But I wonder how many BB users there are who actually modest email users and would do as well or better with an Android or iPhone? If those numbers are real, that could put pressure on companies to introduce non-BB phones for corporate use.


But it seems BB can survive quite a while on the global business market. Look how that market is keeping MS fat and happy.

 

[Hanson]

I would take Opera Mini on my Touch Pro 2 over Safari any day. Safari on the iPhone is the most overrated browser ever. It doesn't reflow text when you zoom in, forcing you to scroll around on some pages to read an article. Compared to the Android browser that reflows text and handles flash, Safari is primitive. Compared to Opera Mini that formats text to fit the screen, it's clunky. How does Safari get such high marks? I don't get it.


Of course, nothing beats the BB browser. For sucking, that is. Well, maybe Blazer for the Treo. One of the most useless apps ever.

 

[Hanson]

Originally Posted by DaveF
But I wonder how many BB users there are who actually modest email users and would do as well or better with an Android or iPhone? If those numbers are real, that could put pressure on companies to introduce non-BB phones for corporate use.

That what we're doing at my company. Swapping out BB's with Android phones saves the $20/mo BES upcharge and let's me recycle the $100 per seat licenses for new employees who need Blackberries.

Dave, if your Dad has any sort of Windows Server networking, tell him to look into BIS. It's Blackberry's less featured server product, but it allows for lots of central admin and it's free. Plus you avoid the $20 BES surcharge. You don't get Enterprise Activation, but if you don't need all that granular control, it should work fine.

Dave, if your Dad has any sort of Windows Server networking, tell him to look into BIS. It's Blackberry's less featured server product, but it allows for lots of central admin and it's free. Plus you avoid the $20 BES surcharge. You don't get Enterprise Activation, but if you don't need all that granular control, it should work fine.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by DaveF

Some misc thoughts on BB and its role in life


A brother-in-law is an upper-level manager at a Fortune-500 type company (and crackberry addict). I've asked him about iPhones in the corporation. The answer is still the same: IT can't provide the necessary security with an iPhone, so they stay with BB. Neither of us knows enough about this stuff really understand the issue, but I think it is because the iPhone can access corporate wifi, while the BB is cell-signal only (???). But real or not, that perception will go a long ways to keeping BB entrenched in the corporate world.

No better security has nothing to do with WiFi. BB has done WiFi for sometime.


The issue is that blackberry does AES encryption on content end to end from a BES, and pretty much nothing else does. This matters only for a certain market, but for that market it is a piece they will not change. And if you are governed by PICS compliance, you -can't- switch to an iPhone or Android, because they aren't compliant devices. I mean, I guess you could, but if anything ever happened, that loss of the ability to store credit data would be a killer.


http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/features.jsp


For people that are on IBM led networks (Lotus Domino) Blackberry is the only phone that connects to it at all. Novell Groupwise? Kind of the same. Other phones don't even have an ability to connect with that at all..


So, Blackberry can release the phone they are after.


In the end, for me, there are issues I'm very interested in. I'll have to look at if Apple has changed over their method of Exchange from the 3GS, which was mostly an OWA updater.. which is not so hot because of the non-access to GLA/Rules/Public. But if they've altered that, it's interesting.. and if Google has, that's good to.


But for me, the dealbreaker really is a keyboard. I could deal with a black and white green screen with no graphic capability at all if I have a keyboard. The other stuff is fine and dandy, but the ability to hammer out email and use a good phone matters. And, like I said, since I have to have a phone that either has no camera or one that can be firmware disabled, access to a camera pretty much means nothing to me.


So there is always that crowd

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
My iPhone shows new email simultaneous with desktop Outlook at
work. Other iPhone users have said the same thing. Maybe all of the
corporate network has a 5 min delay? But my understanding is that
Exchange 'pushes' email to the iPhone instantly.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Actually, to my initial surprise, my BB typically receives email 1/2-to-1 min before my work Outlook. I'm still not sure why it's like that, but my coworkers get that also. Maybe Outlook doesn't actually support true email push.

_Man_

 

[Hanson]

Man, most businesses use Exchange cache mode, where Outlook checks the server for new mail on a periodic basis. What you have on your desktop is a synced copy of your Exchange mailbox.


BES shoots the mail out as it hits the server. That's the reason for the delay. If you took your mailbox off of cached mode, Outlook would act as a real-time client and you wouldn't see the delay.

 

[mattCR]

I've now spent 30 days with Torch. Here's my thoughts:


(1) The keyboard is very good

(2) While #1 is true, it is much more difficult to one hand type then with any other blackberry because of the way it balances. So, if you're one of those who txts everywhere, or txts/emails without looking, this starts out an issue.

(3) Blackberry 6 started out fine, but the most recent update - available at their website - makes a huge difference in how it performs. Very impressed.

(4) Blackberry Messenger secured client still ranks as one of the best, easiest to handle secured chat clients out there; and for those using BES, it's flat out awesome.

(5) battery life is about what I expect.

(6) new universal search is fast, but it's search of multiple contact folders is not what I would want. Still needs tweaking.


For those that know, I cannot have a phone with a camera (or any device) because of a client I work with, we cannot walk into their facility with a camera or any video recording device. So, I can't comment on the camera, as I've had it hardware disabled from day one. However, I will say that this phone was far easier to do that on then previous blackberries, though I'm glad they all make it possible.


My big complaint really is with the weight distribution. This is something that is hard to really relate unless you hold it. For those that use the keypad, once this is "open" the weight of the phone is not right in your hands. It is roughly the same weight as the 9700, however, it is not balanced as well, so it seems a bit "clunky". Outside of that, it's pretty much a home run