Aspect Ratio Documentation (2 Viewers)

[EddieLarkin]

Riot in Cell Block 11 coming from Criterion in April. They're claiming 1.33:1, on their website at least (they might change it). Allied Artists, Feb '54, sounds widescreen to me (1.75:1?). Any chance of a confirmation Bob?

As for Il sorpasso, they list 1.37:1 but provided this clip from the film in 1.85:1:



So I'm not so worried about that one, the listing is probably incorrect.

 

[DVDvision]

I think it's documented in this thread Riot is widescreen.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

RIOT began filming August 17, 1953, several months after Allied Artists converted to widescreen but before they were locked in at 1.85.

It's most likely 1.75.

EDIT: The correct ratio is 1.66.

 

[EddieLarkin]

I searched, but found nothing. Anyway, thanks Bob! Hopefully they'll change it in the coming weeks.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

I'm in touch with them as we speak and have provided some documents. They're going to look at 1.75 and see how it works.

Allied Artists was the one studio that did not specify a house ratio when they first announced their widescreen conversion in July 1953. It wasn't until four months later that 1.85:1 was specified. For that reason - and our experience with DRAGONFLY SQUADRON - I believe they were originally composing for 1.66:1. The titles and action for DS block perfectly at that ratio.

Incidentally, RIOT was slated for 3-D production until two weeks before cameras rolled. They were given a two week restriction on filming at Folsom Prison and Walter Wanger decided it would not be enough time for the stereoscopic set-ups.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

I've just watched a few minutes of RIOT from an old TV transfer. It's definitely widescreen.

As they are bringing food to the prisoners in the opening sequence (after the 1.37 stock footage) Harlan is tilting the camera up to keep actors in the frame for widescreen.

The titles block comfortably for 1.85 and 1.75 would give a little extra breathing room.


1.85:1

1.75:1

 

[Vincent_P]

The Warner Bros. press release for MEMPHIS BELLE lists a 1.66:1 aspect ratio. Surely that can't be correct? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100133/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Vincent

 

[EddieLarkin]

It's a little disconcerting that the 1.33:1 listing they put up was not a mistake and that they intended (and still may, I guess) to release it that way. You'd think by now they'd have learnt to do all this research themselves, instead of waiting for others to point it out to them only a few months before the disc is finalised.

Regarding the AR Bob, is there no trade information for this title (or other '53 AA productions)?

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Allied Artists was the only studio that made a widescreen announcement (on July 3) without mentioning a specific ratio. It wasn't until November 17 that they specified 1.85:1. RIOT may be 1.66 (as is DRAGONFLY SQUADRON) but I can't say for sure. It was released in February 1954, shortly before Variety and Boxoffice began listing AR data. The listing from Exhibitor specifies 1.85.

When initially announced for production on June 15, 1953, RIOT was to be 3-D with stereophonic sound and Crane Wilbur was slotted to direct. He was riding high on the current boxoffice success of HOUSE OF WAX.On July 22, Variety reported: "Crane Wilbur bowed out as director of "Riot In Cell Block 11" at Allied Artists because of differences of opinion in handling the script."Siegel was signed on July 27 and plans for 3-D were dropped on August 5. "Walter Wanger's Allied Artists production, "Riot in Cell Block 11," will be filmed in 2-D instead of 3-D because of regulations at Folsom Prison, where much of the shooting will be done. Prison officials put a two-week limit on the use of the location."The stereophonic sound plans were also dropped because of problems Allied Artists' was having in July with dubbing stereo onto THE MAZE. I suspect the technical problems of doing multi-track 35mm recording at Folsom Prison on a two week shoot was out of the question.Allied had begun filming for widescreen on May 7, 1953 with THE ROYAL AFRICAN RIFLES. They didn't make their official announcement until July 3 and RIOT went before the cameras on August 17.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

It's a little disconcerting that the 1.33:1 listing they put up was not a mistake and that they intended (and still may, I guess) to release it that way. You'd think by now they'd have learnt to do all this research themselves, instead of waiting for others to point it out to them only a few months before the disc is finalised.

I believe part of the confusion is based on the first few minutes of stock footage at the opening in the film, including this 1.37:1 newsreel interview with Richard A. McGee. You'll notice the text is blocked for wide but the action is not.

This footage was not photographed for the film. Clearly Wanger and Siegel felt it important enough to include in the opening and deal with a few minutes of standard ratio cropping. After all, there was no widescreen stock footage of prison rioting available in the summer of 1953.

Once you hit the 4.00 mark and principal photography begins, it's clearly widescreen. Harlan is constantly tilting his camera up to keep actors in frame for the wide ratio.

Those camera moves throughout the film would not have been necessary if 1.37 was the primary intent.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Memphis Belle has always been 1.66 to my memory - I know the old Laserdisc was 1.66 when WB was regularly doing 1.85 if it was called for.

 

[Vincent_P]

Interesting- but it would have been screened theatrically at 1.85:1 (at least 35mm prints), no?

Vincent

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Possibly. It was intended to be closer to the look of 40's Academy, and there is a note on the disc about the aspect ratio (1.66) being chosen by the filmmakers specifically. Warners wouldn't put out anything but 1.85 on LD for a flat title unless the filmmaker requested (Barry Lyndon for one)

 

[FoxyMulder]

Memphis Belle has always been 1.66 to my memory - I know the old Laserdisc was 1.66 when WB was regularly doing 1.85 if it was called for.

It's being shown on ITV 3 here right now at 1.78:1.

 

[theonemacduff]

It's being shown on ITV 3 here right now at 1.78:1.

Saw it in the theatre when it came out, and my memory is that it was wider than 1.66. Quite possibly my local projectionist simply ran it through the 1.85 aperture plate anyhow. I remember the theatre being quite empty, and I remember being very impressed by the SIZE of the bombers when you see them projected on a real cinema screen, an effect that is quite lost on my 46" display. I suppose I could sit closer.......

 

[Brandon Conway]

Bob, is there a pic of the Touch of Evil AR per trade mags stating 1.85:1? I need to counter a guy on bluray.com who says I'm being subjective by stating it's absolutely a 1.85:1 film based on Universal policy in 1958 and dvdbeaver.com screengrabs showing too much headroom in the 1.33:1 version.

EDIT: I see that you did post it here once, but the link is down: http://s169.photobucket.com/user/BobFurmanek/media/TOE.jpg.html

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Here you go, Brandon. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Brandon Conway]

Thanks!

 

[Brandon Conway]

Bob, have you received any feedback more recently from Criterion re: Riot in Cell Block 11?

 

[Bob Furmanek]

No, I haven't heard anything further.

I'm sure they will make the right call. Careful study of the camera movement throughout the film shows that it is obviously shot for widescreen.