Are We Raising a Generation of Wimps? (1 Viewer)

[dana martin]

That works till they come home drunk, and take a swing, not mine, lets just say that my sweet mom put me on my ass, and i learned, what it means to be a parent, her house her rules.
By the way i was serious about the fishing, that and baseball are one of the things the boy have in common, even when we don't get along

 

[JonZ]

"I don't believe in having a child that's quiet, afraid of me, and afraid of taking chances. I don't believe in having a child that does things because he's afraid that otherwise I will hurt him."

No one suggested anything of the sort.

"I don't believe in having a child that has to look to me for decisions on what's right or wrong, but knowing himself what is right or wrong, based on what he's learned from previous experiences"

And if this isnt taught to him/her. What then?They curse at their parents? Dont belive thei supposed to do as their told? Know they can get away with whatever becuase there is no punishment?
I have 3 friends who are teachers and they all have said at different times that students swear at them. And often respond with "you cant tell me what to do" or "no"(again I never would have thought of sauing such a thing to a adult) - are they gonna curse at their boss too when theyre told to do something they dont like. Where the blueprint for respect of authority, your elders,the rules, any given law,etc?


Like I said sometimes kids need a little tyranny.A unbendable law. One that you cant slither your way out of. The realization of what will be the consequences if I do this.This does not mean a spanking for every infraction.No one here has said that. I wasnt afraid of "violence", the idea of my mother standing over me screaming was often enough to do it.But I was a stubborn kid and sometimes needed a little extra reminder(Jamie Foxx would agree with me here)

"continue doing what gives him joy and brings him fortune, and don't do what leaves him where he started"

I wish this for everyone.

 

[dana martin]

well here is one thing, sort of use military training that works, on kids, i know i will hear it from all side on this
Praise in public
discipline in private

in other words if they do something right don't save it up, let them know, but if they mess up, well you know it doest have to be seen buy siblings, because all that will do is bring embarrassments on the child

and you,s much as every parent wants to treat all of them the same, you cant, each and everyone is different, where a talk works for one, taking the door off of their room works for another.

 

[MarkHastings]

A Punishment is a way to teach the child a lesson so he/she can "mend his or her ways". Beating the crap out of someone is NOT going to teach that person a lesson, but fear and pain can be used effectively in order to teach someone when they've done something wrong.

We do this all the time with dogs. A little nip on the snout is quite disturbing to a dog and he/she will learn rather quickly to associate that nip with something doing something wrong and the dog will cease the behavior.

Not that kids are like dogs, but children need to learn about the world. While some may think it's harsh, overprotection will do the child a lot more damage than a little discipline will.Exactly, that's why I mentioned "effective punishment". There are times that call for a mere talk and there are times that call for something a bit harsher.

Children are resiliant, they're not made of glass. I think the thing that people fear is when they see these parents that beat the shit out of their kids and they hate that visual so much that they go in the complete opposite direction. I believe that is quite unhealthy. A timid approach to parenting won't really help in the long run.

 

[dana martin]

well that door thing was something i came up with, during a turbulent teen angst phase, no i wont get up , no i wont go to school, no i am never coming out of my room, no you cant tell me what to do. BS my house, i am taking the door, i will walk into your room, you will get out of bed, you will go to school, what do i get three months later, a thanks dad, at times it's just nice to hear that.

 

[JonZ]

I should also add that I can only remember a few times wen my mother felt a kick in the ass o smack upside the head was necessary for me. It wasnt a common occurance.

I also think a big factor is the neighborhood raising the children. The house I bought is in a pretty big development, but after being here for a year, its not like when I was growing up and all the neighborhood parents raised all raised all the kids.

I remember us kids used to often called the neighborhood parents uncle or aunt.

 

[Yee-Ming]

I can't necessarily speak for the whole of Asia, coming from a tiny and arguably atypical Asian country, but I'd guess what they're driving at is that schools in the "overachieving" Asian countries inevitably emphasis learning by rote, teaching to the test/exam etc, which produces great scientists and engineers, but little by way of the creative arts. Bachelor of Fine Arts? No such course here, though you get all varieties of engineering and the sciences.

Indeed, one gripe about the system is precisely that it produces technocrats, but doesn't encourage "thinking out of the box". But it's certainly provided a good foundation for economic growth, just not the "finer things in life", if you're into hoity toity culture.

I guess ultimately it's all about moderation and not going to either extreme: we need to "loosen up" a bit and encourage those with artistic creativity, but at the same time, when it comes to hard facts, whether in math, science, grammar/spelling, the right answer is the right answer, everything else is wrong, and you can't simply wish that away, even if it hurts the feeling of poor little Timmy who didn't quite get it right. By all means let him be creative on the canvas and paint portraits with oversized heads or whatever, but when it comes to framing that portrait, the frame needs to fit exactly and being "slightly off" by half-an-inch and the angle of the corner at 89 degrees is simply wrong.

 

[Carl Miller]

I don't know how widespread it is now, if it's even around at all. But at that time when my son was given an A every week for spelling half his words wrong, it was widespread in downstate NY where I live.

Concerning the effect it had on my son, it was pretty bad. It set him, and all his classmates back in terms of their reading and writing skills, which is why they dropped it from the curriculum eventually.

 

[JonZ]

You want to talk about a unruly kid.....


http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/1515.html

For those at work,be warned there are some text porn banners on that page.

No nudity or pornographic material displayed though.

 

[KevinGress]

Laudable beliefs to be certain. And great if your child responds solely to "positive reinforcement". But during your examples, I came up with a question - you state your child currently is 2yrs and that if he threw a tantrum you simply removed him from the room/area/whatever, and let him throw his tantrum in private. Easy enough to do at 2. What happens at 5 or 7 when he's larger and may resist attempts to be removed? One could attempt to issue the charge of "violence!" simply because you imposed your will on him by removing him. I'm making this ridiculous argument for the simple point of stating that people's view of violence is not universal, and that some level may be considered beneficial.

To be certain, many parents spank out of desparation or anger, and that isn't appropriate. But if spelled out to a child, as part of the "setting boundaries that cannot be broken", I see no lasting negative effects of spanking. And, if done properly, would be viewed by said child, to actually be one of love.

Tying this back to the original topic, the big thing is to set boundaries, set consequences and then "not be a wimp" and carry out the consequence if the boundary is broken. I think most of us have seen examples of parents threat their children simply issue another threat when the child willfully disobeys the first challenge.

 

[johnnyPower]

bullshit.

i used to go out and play, get into fights, win some, lose some. i used to eat weird things when i was 10, scraped half my body falling off a bike, have required 20 or so stiches for 3 different cuts in my hands, punched, walked and run through glass, done a 5 mile hike alone when i was 8, know what mud tastes like, rolled around in asbestos, imitated bruce lee jumping off a tree and breaking my leg.

im over 20 now, so i guess i missed 'your generation' but calling everyone today a pussy is uncalled for.

 

[johnnyPower]

and i am thankful my parents beat me when i misbehaved, made me a hell of a lot better as a person - the kind of things i thought i could get away with...

if you dont beat children when they get out of line they will grow up with the wrong idea, that its ok to do things that in the real world will get you in trouble.

 

[Malcolm R]

I think the "generation of wimps" is the current generation of parents with children under 21. They all seem to be afraid of their children. Instead of setting rules and enforcing them, they approach everything as a negotiation between them and the child. These are CHILDREN, you are the PARENT! There is nothing to negotiate; you set the rules...they obey. Parents today seem deathly afraid to take a stand against their child and simply say, "No!"...then back it up with consequences, if necessary. There are no consequences anymore, so kids simply don't listen and do what they want. They know that whatever facade of "consequences" the parent may try and enforce will collapse like a house of cards in a matter of hours (if not minutes).

I've always felt that good parenting included a healthy dose of fear, but it should be the child who is a bit afraid of the parents, not the other way around.

Parents should not be their child's friend; s/he has plenty of friends. But s/he only has two parents.

 

[MarkHastings]

The sad thing is, there are lots of children who know how to dial DCF and will do so if the parent so much as raises a hand.

Well, obviously most parents don't have to fear being jailed, but it doesn't look for the parents when the child is dialing DCF, no matter how innocent. :frowning:

 

[Brian Perry]

I thought Rick Telander of the Sun-Times had a good point in a recent column, lamenting the gradual disappearance of recess:

"Treating school recess, for instance, as a mere contrivance and waste of time -- and getting rid of it -- well, nobody knows the damage such a simple thing can do to boys.

There are those of us who remember that the mere thought of recess approaching with each tick of the classroom clock -- with the chance to run, scream and pound on something that recess promised -- was all that kept us sane."

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I was a rural boy, but I went to a suburban school district. Many of the negative changes in this thread I watched happen as I went through the years. K-3 one of the lunch aides RAN the dodgeball games. Fourth grade on, we got yelled at for it. I remember playing around at the top of a tall twisty slide on the playground, getting pushed off by a girl, and smashing my back into the rim of the slide below. I went to the nurse, got to miss a couple hours of class, and that was the end of it. Now I doubt the slide's even still there. My class was the last to have a middle school of grades instead of a middle school of houses. High school meant getting grandfathered out of a lot of standardized testing forced down the throats of the younger children. By my grade, the speaker was already chosen by popular vote, but we were the last class to have rankings. I belive we were also one of the last classes to have a fluff senior year.
Some of the high school friends I keep in touch with have never swam in a pond. The vast majority have never spent a night with the ground for a bed and the stars for a blanket.
Most of my fondeszt memories, childhood or otherwise, involve screwing around and doing shit that probably should have killed me or my friends. One of the harshest adjustments to moving to Boston was adapting to world where pocket parks are considered wilderness, and not having a car to escape into the country. As a person accustomed the sound of birds and the wind through the trees, getting used to kids on the subway who, raised to believe AIM is a social center, are so isolated from their world that they need to deafen themselves through iPod earbuds turned so loud that I can hear the "music."

 

[Carl Miller]

Agreed, and I have a quick story.

I had a chat with the father and mother of one of my son's friends over the weekend. They asked me what steps we took to monitor our son's TV and computer habits because they're having trouble with their own son on both fronts..seems he's watching shows they don't want him watching and surfing to places they don't want him looking.

I told them neither of my kids have their own TV or computer in their bedrooms, and that both are in the den where I or my wife can always see what's on TV or on the computer.

They looked at me blankly and the wife then said (direct quote here) "That's a little harsh isn't it? We don't think Mike (their son) would be very happy about that."

The rest of the conversation consisted of them telling me that they've tried everything and nothing seemed to work.

I just rolled my eyes and walked away.

 

[Holadem]

You must have zero respect for most of the planet then. I believe only in Western societies are people so friggin touchy about the idea of smacking a child. Kids in these societies also happen to be by far the rudest, most undisciplined and most misbehaved that I've ever seen. But eh... it's gotta be better than your child growing into the violent psychos that populate the rest of the world as a result of the trauma of corporal punishment.

--
H

 

[Greg_R]

Smacking only worked on me until I started Elementary school. After that, my parents discovered an even worse punishment: Holding their hands while visiting a public place. To a young boy this was absolute torture .

 

[johnnyPower]

Just remember, I pay the damn phone bills. If kids can do what they want, they should get jobs, like down coal mines .