Appeal of "Dawn of the Dead"? (1 Viewer)

[Michael Elliott]

Karlosi, I know you like the remake more so there's no point in debating the original with you. I know you found everything in the remake better so that will end anything we could possible talk about regarding either movie.

As we'd always say, the original DAWN needs no defending whatsoever.

 

[Kevin M]

Jesus, I'm quoting myself now....anyway, you notice the WINKY and the actual text stating that I am not entirely serious in the Fast Moving Zombie statement? It's there for a reason. I don't really believe 100% that this is true of the people who prefer them (FMZ's over SMZ's) but I do think that it is used by the makers of these films because of their mistrust in audiences patience...."they won't sit still for slow moving Zombies, they dig the MTV with the fast editing and all of that so make em' RUN....oh, sure the fact that these bodies are rotting and rigor mortis is setting in is the odd Romero logic for having them move slow but 28 days later made a lot of money so we better use them, well, yeah those weren't "zombies" in that film per-say but so what, nobody with think of that....Olympic runners ALL OF THEM!!".

So I wasn't entirely serious in my statement regarding the audience but I still think that is the mindset of the producers behind FMZ's use. That I am serious about.


Maybe.

 

[Kevin M]

BTW, for the record I did like the new Dawn, much to my surprise, but the sprinting dead is one aspect I can't look past, it's just cheaply latching onto the concept laid out in 28 days later in a shallow attempt to draw in a bigger crowd based on that films success and not for logical reasons for having them run compared to the logic in 28 days, IMO.


Nonetheless, as I said, I liked the remake as well as love the original...doesn't happen often for me but it does happen from time to time.

 

[Matthew_Def]

Can't agree with that. He's certainly selfish, but he's wise about shooting his gun. He does not go blasting off at the apartment building in the beginning. Hell, in the beginning he's pretty smart. It's once he thinks the situation is in control that when things turn bad. He starts making the same mistakes the rest of the world is making, and he pays for it. The relationship between him and Peter is so well developed, that when it comes time for Peter to shoot Roger, it's heartbreaking. Even worse though, is when he's telling Peter his final wishes. Roger still doesn't seem to understand what this world is all about, thinking he can control this plague. His zombie is easily the creepist in the film, because he seems to have an awareness most of the others lack.

Ultimately there are so many scenes where the characters are allowed to breath. Romero just slows it down. That's hardly something that happens in any other zombie film, and for that, it still remains quite fresh.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I think it does these days. NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD is the only one of the Romero films that stands alone with its solid rep and requires no defending.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I don't think Sarah or the pilot are unlikable, nor assholes. The army men - sure. But that's to be expected under such curcumstances.

 

[Shawn_KE]

I grew up watching the original Dawn of the Dead, and still love it. Campy and so so zombie makeup and all. Slow zombies have the impending doom that no matter what you do, they will get you.

But have to say I like the remake better. I cared about the characters more. And the cut scenes during the ending credits makes it one of the best endings ever: did they make it or not?

 

[Shawn_KE]

I agree completly. Rhodes was a ass to the end.

Day of the Dead, even 20 years later, still has the best gore effects of any movie IMHO.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

He's also the creepiest because his zombie is the only one even remotely made up.

DAWN OF THE DEAD is just a shoot-em-up fest. One which gets old eventually and goes on too long. It was quite a ride in its day, but it's not high art.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Yes - a classic villain.

 

[Michael Elliott]

You're certainly intitled to your opinion but bashing this film is just like various posters who bash BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN or any other highly regarded horror film. If DAWN was nothing more than a gore film then it would have never been loved by critics, the non-horror fans and even the fans would have only seen the gore. People are a lot more passionate about this film than just some mindless zombie flick with gore ala some bad Italian production.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I don't like the little squirt, what can I tell ya?

Well, you've certainly gone through a lot there to defend a film which "doesn't require any defending," but we'll just have to agree to disagree on it. I don't hate the film; I just think it's overrated. Implying that I don't have any "brain use" because I don't see this particular shoot-em-up gorefest your way is one reason why these types of talks always turn into arguments.

 

[Ocean Phoenix]

I haven't seen a lot of zombie movies, but of the ones I've seen, I liked "Dawn Of The Dead" least. The others I've seen are "28 Days Later", "Re-Animator", and "Shaun Of The Dead". I'm not sure if "Evil Dead" and "Evil Dead II" are also considered zombie movies, but if they are, you can add those to the list. I found all of those movies much more entertaining than "Dawn Of The Dead", with more memorable characters and less repetitive plots. I know "Shaun Of The Dead" is very much a tribute that wouldn't exist if not for "Dawn Of The Dead" and it's obviously not meant to be taken nearly as seriously being a comedy, but I honestly believe it is the better of the two as a zombie movie.

I don't remember a lot of details about "Dawn Of The Dead" - only that I got bored about halfway through, the characters didn't leave an impression, and when I look back on it, all I can really remember that I can appreciate is the fantastic gore effects. On the other hand, in the other movies I've mentioned, I remember feeling genuine affection or sympathy for a lot of the characters, staying interested and unsure of what's going to happen next from start to finish, and feeling riveted/satisfied by how they ended.

To the person two posts above me- don't assume that all people who dislike "Dawn Of The Dead" dislike all highly regarded horror movies like "Bride Of Frankenstein". I found "Dawn Of The Dead" very disappointing, but "Bride Of Frankenstein" is one of my top ten favourite movies of all-time. And part of why I love "Bride Of Frankenstein" is because I believe it had exactly what "Dawn Of The Dead" lacked which kept it from appealing to me - characters that I could get emotionally invested in.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Thanks for proving it's not only me, Ocean.

 

[Kevin M]

Ok, in this I have to disagree, from the first time I saw Day (in 85 at a dollar theater triple feature along with Return of the Living Dead and The Grim Reaper) my biggest complaint aside from the rather crappy synth score* was that the main heroine was as interesting as, & had all of the emotion, character and compassion of a dead fish. I know that the main defense for this common complaint is that she was supposed to be "drained" from the shocking events but IMO this is just fans coming up with excuses for a wooden actress in a film they love.

BTW I happen to LOVE Joe Pilato's Capt. Rhodes, oddly enough in many ways I understood his character's POV more than anyone else's...sure he was a psycho but when he says things like "I'm running this monkey farm now Frankenstein and I wanna know... what the fuck you’re doing with my time? " or "Their DEAD! Their fucking dead and you wanna teach them TRICKS?!? I don't want them to do anything but drop over!" I have to say....yeah, it's a bit enraged but...yeah, I agree.


* Which is unfortunate since I loved Harrison's score in Creepshow & really loved his score in Effects (1980).

 

[Andy Sheets]

That's the funny thing about Romero's movies - the Asshole usually has some good points. It's the same thing in Night: the angry husband who wants to barricade down in the basement keeps having his viewpoint thrown back in his face, but when the crap hits the fan what happens? The hero runs down and survives by barricading himself in the basement

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Love it!

 

[Michael Elliott]

I never said you didn't have any brains. I said this film isn't a mindless hack film like the majority of the Italian zombie films that ripped this one off. If the talk in the film bothers anyone then they'd probably enjoy the Dario Argento cut of the film, which IS nothing more than a shoot 'em up gore flick.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I didn't say anything about the talk, though none of it interests me, and the people don't interest me. The scene in DAY where the pilot is trying to explain to Sarah how they're just wasting their time with all these "papers" (or whatever it was) was more interesting to me.

But yeah, when I first saw DAWN back in its time (before any of the subsequent copycats) I pretty much viewed it even then as an all-out action bonanza and "let's stretch the gore limit" affair.

 

[Richard--W]

One of the things I like best about Dawn of the Dead is that it's not a female-lead-in-jeopardy story with a male-bashing point of view. It was made before the onslaught of militant feminism that requires all male characters to be disappointments to, and oppressors of, the female lead. Most film projects must adhere to this formula to get made today. Although audiences don't look that deeply into their entertainment, the formula is present in virtually every film now playing, from the remake of King Kong to Casino Royale. Sometimes I think this formula is the one aspect younger audiences respond to the most. The don't understand a film without it. But in 1978, when Dawn of the Dead was produced, the men think they can protect Francine (played by Gaylen Ross) by keeping her in a barricaded room while they go out for looking for supplies among the living dead. Notice how Francine brings out the protective instinct in each of them. When the dead get in anyhow, Francine tells the men that from now on she expects to be told what's going on, to be included in the risks, to be supplied a firearm, and to be taught how to fly the helicopter in case they can't. After that, she's one of the guys, the film goes on about its business, and there's no political correctness to undermine or spoil the entertainment.

Let's fight over that.