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Anyone Have "24" the R2 Version?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Mike-M, Mar 26, 2003.

  1. Simon Young

    Simon Young Well-Known Member

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    Yes Philip, I know. You and I are in complete agreement.

    It was the FIRST season of 24 that was mastered from NTSC, not film. The SECOND season has received a proper conversion, and therefore does suffer from speedup.

    However, it was the FIRST season that Julian was surely referring to when he said he watched it on BBC and couldn't detect the speedup. And, like I said, he wouldn't have, because (unlike SEASON TWO) it wasn't sped up. [​IMG]

    Oh, and Will B - it is possible to correct the pitch, so that the sound is simply faster. The first (and best) way is to process the whole soundtrack digitally, so that every frequency is altered. The second (crappy) way, is to cut out 1/25th of every second of audio, thereby keeping it in synch with the sped-up picture, but without raising the pitch. This method has been used on all PAL releases of Fellowship of the Ring and Magnolia (amongst others). It creates an annoying 'skip' in the audio which is almost as annoying as the speedup itself. It is applied to some TV shows as well, such as X-Files and Smallville[i/], and is very distracting.
     
  2. Julian Lalor

    Julian Lalor Well-Known Member

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  3. PhilipG

    PhilipG Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that was a "so there" reply.

    However, I suggest you take some of your own advice. If you're sick of this argument, don't go on about it in this thread ad nauseum. [​IMG]

    Take 2:

     
  4. John CW

    John CW Well-Known Member

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  5. PhilipG

    PhilipG Well-Known Member

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    John CW,

    The line you quoted from me was in reference to that one line above that Julian stated as fact. I wasn't rubbishing anyone's opinion that they don't notice any difference. Just to clarify. [​IMG]
     
  6. Jonathan Kaye

    Jonathan Kaye Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hell! All I did back in Post 3 of this thread was mention that the PAL-speedup should be born in mind when comparing the two DVDs!! I have unleashed a monster...[​IMG]

    Anyway, I'm with PhilipG & Simon Young on this: familiar voices/music just sound wrong when subjected to speedup (the opening note of the Star Wars theme is the most obvious to my ears), and once you've noticed it you can't go back.

     
  7. Geoff_D

    Geoff_D Well-Known Member

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    Having lived in England all my life I never, ever, noticed speed-up of any kind until I started buying NTSC LDs back in the day. It was simply through familiarity with the PAL material that I noticed what I thought was slow-down on the NTSC material. I wondered "why they slowed it down so much for NTSC?" and only in the last few years have I read up on the subject and found that PAL is sped-up and NTSC is at the correct pitch. And you know what? I don't mind either option. PAL because I've grown up watching my fave movies/actors in that standard and NTSC because it's nice to have the material at the original pitch.

    I'm not saying that I don't notice the speed-up, I do sometimes, but it genuinely doesn't bother me. The strange thing is I've noticed the speed-up on some commentaries that I've listened to recently, but not on the films that accompany the commentary! And anyone who says that people should notice it simply because it's there is talking out of their arse. If you've grown up watching PAL transfers of movies and tv shows then surely they sound as they always have done to you! And in such circumstances, unless you have an extremely keen musical ear or are exposed to NTSC material, it's unlikely that you'll ever detect the speed-up. Although it's sure gonna be strange watching Buffy at the correct pitch when I get the upcoming R1 Season Four set!
     
  8. Julian Lalor

    Julian Lalor Well-Known Member

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  9. Simon Young

    Simon Young Well-Known Member

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    Of course I was exaggerating, for the sake of underlining how pronounced the difference was for me. Only a fool would have taken what I said at face value! But my point was clear - if you're used to hearing something one way, any other way runs the risk of sounding 'wrong'.
     
  10. Paul_Stachniak

    Paul_Stachniak Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity, is there a reversal effect with transferring PAL shows to NTSC?
     
  11. PhilipG

    PhilipG Well-Known Member

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  12. Dan Rudolph

    Dan Rudolph Well-Known Member

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    There isn't an NTSC slowdown as NTSC can be encoded for 24 or 30 fps. PAL is always done at 25, IIRC. To transfer PAL material to NTSC, you use 30fps and double every fifth frame.
     
  13. PhilipG

    PhilipG Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Dan. [​IMG]
     
  14. John CW

    John CW Well-Known Member

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  15. Simon Young

    Simon Young Well-Known Member

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    Not true - movies shot at 24fps are almost always stored on NTSC DVD this way. It is the DVD player that converts it to 30fps, by doubling every 3rd field in real-time. If you don't believe me, try ripping a raw MPEG-2 stream from an NTSC DVD. The frame rate will be 24fps. What a progressive scan player effectively does is bypass the 3:2 pulldown process and send the pure 24fps signal to a display device that can handle it (via component cables).
     
  16. Paul_Stachniak

    Paul_Stachniak Well-Known Member

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    Meh loosing some resolution doesn't bother my anymore. Ever since I got my HD TV, and seeing CSI in 1080p, all DVDs just fail to impress.

    Further more, I seriously doubt I'm not missing any resolution with old stuff like Monty Python of Fawlty Towers.
     
  17. John CW

    John CW Well-Known Member

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  18. Simon Young

    Simon Young Well-Known Member

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    I just said the exact same thing. It's stored on the disc at 24fps, and the player does the up-conversion to 29.97fps in real-time. And I think you're a bit confused - it's 59.94 FIELDS per second, not frames. 24fps is actually 48 FIELDS per second. Every third field is repeated twice.
     

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