Anyone feel a bit letdown by Shout! Select? (1 Viewer)

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by Robert13

I used to buy quite a few Shout dvds but lately, to be honest, they haven't released much of anything. It's been a really slow year for them. Chaulk it up to a sign of the times or whatever... but I was hoping for more "Facts Of Life", "Marcus Welby" and their new acquisition of "Hazel" which seems to have also fallen by the wayside. Is classic tv on dvd a thing of the past?

I'm impressed so far with the progress on Dennis the Menace and Webster, and grateful for their completion of All in the Family.

I'm still waiting for more Facts of Life, Designing Women (at least Delta Burke's last season), and Mr. Belvedere (the Fox titles seem to be in limbo). But their resources are not infinite. Music rights do play a part, yet they're better than just about every studio with that; I wish they had made their CBS/Paramount deal five years ago. In the Police Story thread, they said Maude is a music rights nightmare which they won't touch.


The Shout Select program at least gives shows a chance to be completed.


Several things to keep in mind (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

—Shout! may not have the resources to do big ad campaigns.

—The remaining big box stores are refusing to carry old movies and TV shows anymore unless they're Star Wars or Disney. I go to Best Buy about 5% as much as I used to. My main dealing with them now is paying off the lenses for my DSLR camera.

—The death of Tower Records had a huge effect on sales.

—I recently read an article saying to the effect of "downloading killed the TV show box set".

—You can't eat, live in, or wear a DVD, therefore it is a luxury, and luxuries are the first to go in a recession.

 

[Kasey]

Last year at this time, I could not sing the praises of Shout loud enough. Patty Duke, Father Knows Best, Rhoda, Designing Women, Facts of Life and All In the Family were all on the horizon. I am very grateful for all they've done for Classic TV lovers, but yes I do agree it looks like many shows are stalled (Rhoda, Facts, DW). They were on a roll, and I realize that it's the people at Fox and Sony that are not playing fair by holding out on rights and licensing, but it does get frustrating when I am more than willing to spend $ (even if all the aforementioned become Select titles). Hopefully Hazel will be announced soon as well as continuations of the others ("When it rains, it pours" perhaps?). Looking forward to a bountiful 4th quarter from them.


I have bought some WB MOD discs, and had no problems with any of them. I keep hoping they'll announce more TV titles like It's a Living, Mama's Family, Alice, Eight is Enough, etc.

 

[Jack P]

If we have to expland this to WB's movie program, then in all candor that makes WB look even better from my standpoint based on output. As I've said, I'm glad for what has been released on the Select program but for me it was still a narrow group of titles overall and at present "Ironside" is the only Select title I have any current interest in as all other titles released on Select that are still in progress I had no interest in (Father Knows Best and Mister Ed for instance, I have never bought a season of since I'm not a fan of either, and "Rhoda" I refused to buy any season of so long as S1 was messed up). At the moment, what I still buy from Shout is overwhelmingly in the regular service.


WB is in a growing pains stage with TV output and after the brilliance of "The FBI" release which was a winner on all levels IMO, I have reason to think future WB TV releases will reward our patience.

Originally Posted by Gary OS

Quote:



I'll have to disagree with you on this one, Jack. Firstly, it was the original poster who brought up the comparisons so I'm just responding to that. Secondly, when one considers that Shout still makes a larger commitment with their Select program because they are pressing DVDs and not just burning on demand I have to give them the nod. Warner isn't gambling very much when they literally are burning discs only as they are ordered. And thirdly, Warners has actually been in the MOD game a good bit longer than the Shout Select program has. In terms of TV shows Shout Select only began a year and a half ago, and Warners released their first TV show, via the Archives, in the fall of last year. So it's not like Shout had some huge lead coming out of the gate.

Where we do agree is that I'm willing to give Warners a little more time to get their TV selection going. They've been moving at a snail's pace thus far. Maybe now that they've figured out dual-layered burning they'll start releasing more. I'd like to see that happen but until it does I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt. Heck, they've been talking about releasing TV shows via the Archives for some time now.


Gary "I hope both programs flourish - but if I'm forced to pick right now (which is what the OP asked for) I have to go with Shout's program" O.

 

[Gary OS]

Jack, in all fairness you were the one talking about the comparison between the two not being fair because the WB Archive program "when they're just getting their feet wet", which was clearly in reference to the lack of TV titles they've put out yet. I was simply saying that's not a fair point because when you include movies they've been at this a good bit longer than Shout. That was the context you laid out and I was discussing the issue with that in mind. I'd still argue the biggest issue is the "bang for your buck." Clearly the WB program is charging more for less when compared with Shout.

I imagine if I didn't care at all for shows like Father Knows Best or Mr. Ed, but did value The F.B.I., I might feel differently as well. I imagine that's the bottom line here. And that's said in all sincerity and not meant as a slam. Just speaking the truth, so please don't take offense. Along those same lines (personal biases), I admit I've not yet forgiven the WB Archive program for bypassing that incredible 1st Season Dr. Kildare Christmas episode last year. That really bugs me and until they release that one, either in a season set or as a stand alone episode on another compilation set, I'm not going to be thrilled with them.



Gary "just glad both of us can own some of our favorites" O.

 

[Jack P]

It does I'm sure come down for a lot of us to subjectivity on what titles are being released or have been released. And I think it also comes down to whether the "pressed vs. DVD-R" is really a big deal. For me, it ultimately isn't. I've actually replaced most of the balky double sided Universal DVD-18s with backup copies made on single sided DVD-R double layered discs and they give me a lot more peace of mind when viewing so the fact that WB goes that route can never be a deal-breaker with me.


I never purchased the Christmas compilation set and I won't argue with you on the inexcusableness of not including a more appropriate episode on what was clearly PC grounds. Unfortunately, I've found that just about every studio (including Shout) has done something similar to offend me on a personal level at some point or another which is why I ultimately try to just look past things like that if I can and stay focused on what is coming out, and what is the level of their commitment. The price element I still don't think is any worse than what MGM charged for their MOD sets which have now totally stalled out and I think MGM is the studio that WB needs to be more directly compared with. Plus, Shout Select's program doesn't even offer the prospect of occasional discount packages which can cause the base price to be reduced tremendously nor are Select titles made as easily on Amazon in contrast to WB Archive titles (I finally got Cheyenne S2 for a much reduced price through direct Amazon purchase).


Bottom line, both programs have their strengths and flaws and total subjectivism I think based on titles made available is liable to determine which one we favor more than others. As you note if one has pined more for FKB, then there's more instinctive gratitude for Select, and in my case "The FBI" was a Holy of Holies (especially these specific first episodes) so I've got a lot more goodwill built in for WB for now.

 

[Gary OS]

Agreed on all counts, Jack. Especially the PC issue with that Kildare episode. My blood pressure has probably gone through the roof in the last few minutes just thinking about that one again.



Gary "I've got to look into dual-layered DVD-Rs for personal burning myself" O.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

That's exactly what it comes down to, for me... titles available.


DVD-R doesn't bother me, so it's all about the titles. Hanna/Barbera animation just doesn't do anything for me. And that Night Court thing just doesn't sit well with me. That was the one WB Archives series I was looking forward to, and it disappears, with no word on a corrected rerelease of season 4 or future seasons.


Although, on the movie side, WBA has some great stuff out.


Both programs are getting out stuff that wouldn't be otherwise made available, so depending on what you want to see, they're both worth it.

 

[Mark Collins]

PEYTON PLACE not part of the program but a Shout release. I want to express my feelings.


I go on record with my thanks to Shout for the release of Peyton Place. Peyton Place would have been buried deep in the Fox Vault if not for Shout. Someone at Shout took a gamble and the rest is history.


Shout was given complete rights for the entire series. The problem was they only released 2 Volumes. I think Shout at the start should have bought more episode's then they did. Four volumes perhaps. The show was very well received by the media who reviewed it. Like meeting an old friend picking up right where you left off. I believe that was one thing said.


The four volume sets may have given Shout stronger sales. Best Buy had the two Volumes in their store 2 years ago when the show was released.

Now to speak of what did happen. Fox would not give more episode's to Shout at less then what Shout paid out the first time. To bad for Shout to bad for 20th Century Fox and most of all to bad for the fans of this YES HISTORIC TV SERIES.


Peyton Place went back inside the Fox Vault.


How much talk went on between Fox and Shout to reach a compromise only Mr Mac would know.


The fact now is as I stated in the Peyton thread Shout no longer has any interest in the series. Shout responded very quickly to an email from me 1 month ago which stated the above. I thank them very much for that!!


Here we are today and I wish Mr James Finn and Mr Mac if they read this would consider trying once more to put the series back in Shout hands.

MPI had plans for Peyton Place. The stumbling block was Fox had a history of not giving MPI any of their series. None of this is news to anyone who read my post on the Peyton thread.

MPI I want to APOLIGISE to you for revealing to me alone your plans for Peyton Place. I never would have wrote it if I thought it was confidential. Just as I have never revealed emails from Shout or Fox unless I was told that I could. I am so VERY VERY SORRY MPI.


I will still buy Shout products that I might want. Shout seems to have a strong history with Fox and the release of their shows.


I still hope all the Fox series that Shout has rights to wil ge going again.The list of all these is to long to post. I want Peyton Place of course to be the first of the "dead in the water series" to be released again.


The fun fact is people are still buying the show. I find that incredible since Peyton Place stops after volume 2!! The people even know this fact.


Thankyou once again 20th Century Fox and Shout! Factory for giving people a taste of what good drama was back in the 60's. The drama is Peyton Place. the first novel for televison which the producers called it.


Fans email Fox Studio MPI and even Shout that you want Peyton Place to continue!!


I will still be ringing those Church Bells but I sure could use some help.


Thanks again
Mark Collins

 

[Mr. Papagiorgio]

As an animation fan, I like Warner Archive's program much better than Shout! Select. The couple Shout! Select releases I do have don't seem to be as good of quality as the Warner Archive releases I have. It looks like Shout! Select is still struggling to finish a lot of their shows that had more than one volume to go.

 

[Joe Tor1]

Warner Archives has been GREAT for older movies (recently got a Bogart and an Edw. G. Robinson), obscure Irwin Allen productions ("Story of Mankind", "City Beneath the Sea", "Captain Nemo"), and they're ramping up on Hanna-Barbera Sat AM series that would not support general release.

What they are not good at -- or NOT YET good at -- is TV series.

Shout! Select is much better at TV series... even if we all have our different ideas on what they should release! More Ironside!!! And pick up Alfred Hitchcock Presents and Night Gallery!

I'm glad we have them both!

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tor1

Warner Archives has been GREAT for older movies (recently got a Bogart and an Edw. G. Robinson), obscure Irwin Allen productions ("Story of Mankind", "City Beneath the Sea", "Captain Nemo"), and they're ramping up on Hanna-Barbera Sat AM series that would not support general release.

What they are not good at -- or NOT YET good at -- is TV series.

Shout! Select is much better at TV series... even if we all have our different ideas on what they should release! More Ironside!!! And pick up Alfred Hitchcock Presents and Night Gallery!

I'm glad we have them both!

Great points all the way around, Joe!


Gary "I'm grateful for both as well" O.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tor1
Warner Archives has been GREAT for older movies (recently got a Bogart and an Edw. G. Robinson), obscure Irwin Allen productions ("Story of Mankind", "City Beneath the Sea", "Captain Nemo"), and they're ramping up on Hanna-Barbera Sat AM series that would not support general release.

What they are not good at -- or NOT YET good at -- is TV series.

Shout! Select is much better at TV series... even if we all have our different ideas on what they should release! More Ironside!!! And pick up Alfred Hitchcock Presents and Night Gallery!

I'm glad we have them both!

Agree on all points. I have a few WB mod dvd's but they're all movies. When WB mod starts to release shows that I'm interested in, they'll get my attention. So far, there's only been 2 shows that they have available that I'd consider buying and neither one is at a pricepoint that I'd buy, so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary OS
Quote:


Great points all the way around, Joe!


Gary "I'm grateful for both as well" O.

10-4, Gary. I'd like to see the WB mod program releasing a TV/DVD series weekly for those that are interested in buying their products. So far, the pace seems to be slow.

 

[Joe Tor1]

Originally Posted by Jeff Willis

10-4, Gary. I'd like to see the WB mod program releasing a TV/DVD series weekly for those that are interested in buying their products. So far, the pace seems to be slow.

Jeff and Gary:


Great points all around!


What WOULD Warner Archive release in the area of TV series?


As Gary already knows, I’ve got pretty much all the TV series I could ever want, so I can’t say I’ve been looking for much – that is beyond completing “unfinished or abandoned series”! Thanks again, Gary (and Steve L.) for turning me on to THE FUGITIVE.


The ones that remain unfinished in my collection, the aforementioned Ironside, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, Night Gallery, and CBS/P’s Perry Mason and Gunsmoke, would not fall under Warner’s umbrella.


‘60s Batman would be one… but, that’ll never happen! Girl from U.N.C.L.E. would seem to be a no-brainer for WA… But I’m not sure what else I’d look for from them. I’m certain you have plenty of suggestions I’m just not considering – particularly as I am not a ‘70s/’80s (and beyond) fan.


They DO have lots of animated series to offer, between WB, H-B, MGM, etc., and they have been coming slowly – at least the H-B stuff. But most of what I still seek in non-animated programs would have to come from CBS/P, Universal, or Universal via Shout!

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Originally Posted by Joe Tor1






Jeff and Gary:


Great points all around!


What WOULD Warner Archive release in the area of TV series?


As Gary already knows, I’ve got pretty much all the TV series I could ever want, so I can’t say I’ve been looking for much – that is beyond completing “unfinished or abandoned series”! Thanks again, Gary (and Steve L.) for turning me on to THE FUGITIVE.


The ones that remain unfinished in my collection, the aforementioned Ironside, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, Night Gallery, and CBS/P’s Perry Mason and Gunsmoke, would not fall under Warner’s umbrella.


‘60s Batman would be one… but, that’ll never happen! Girl from U.N.C.L.E. would seem to be a no-brainer for WA… But I’m not sure what else I’d look for from them. I’m certain you have plenty of suggestions I’m just not considering – particularly as I am not a ‘70s/’80s (and beyond) fan.


They DO have lots of animated series to offer, between WB, H-B, MGM, etc., and they have been coming slowly – at least the H-B stuff. But most of what I still seek in non-animated programs would have to come from CBS/P, Universal, or Universal via Shout!

WB has a lot of shows that aren't Batman that they could finish up on the Archives.


For example, there's Night Court (which I've complained about twice already). Adventures of Superboy, Captain Marvel... sorry, "Shazam", the stalled out TGIF shows like Perfect Strangers and Family Matters, The George Lopez Show, the final volumes of Animaniacs and Tiny Toon Adventures, Mama's Family, Life Goes On, The Jetsons '86 run, Silverhawks, Welcome Back, Kotter...


Then there's unreleased stuff like Head of the Class, Mayberry RFD, Step By Step, Roc, Surfside 6, Tazmania...


And I didn't even mention impossible due to music rights stuff like The Drew Carey Show, China Beach, and The Wonder Years (IIRC, That was a WB show... or was it Fox?)


There's plenty to draw on from the WB Vaults. All I listed was a lot of 70s through 90s sitcoms and cartoons. I hardly touched the 60s and 70s dramas.


Check Wiki for a rough list of WB shows. There's a lot there... more than enough for a new release every week.

 

[Jack P]

"Girl From UNCLE" and "Tarzan" (Ron Ely) are the two big titles they control I want to see get out. Behind that, I'd pick up "Maverick" and probably blind buy many of the late 50s and 60s titles they control.


I really could care less about 80s and 90s fare.

 

[smithb]

I'd be in for "Tarzan" for sure. "China Beach" was another favorite that will probably never appear.

 

[Joe Tor1]

Originally Posted by The Obsolete Man

WB has a lot of shows that aren't Batman that they could finish up on the Archives.

Clearly, they do... As I suspected there would be!

Just from my perspective of being fortunate enough to have gotten most of what I want -- either completed, or at least started, and being primarily interested in pre-seventies shows -- I was not inclined to think in that direction.

Yes, why don't they consider those series?

Perhaps, it's as I suggested... they're thinking primarily toward movies (they certainly control a LOT of them) and H-B animation has probably sold too well for them to ignore.

My WA purchases break down this way... 3 movies, 2 made for TV movies (by Irwin Allen), and 3 H-B animated series.

Even assuming their thinking on releases is wrong (which I do), my purchases support it.

But, again, I'd buy The Girl from U.N.C.L.E. to go with my Man from U.N.C.L.E. mega-set. And, I'd sure like to see Animaniacs completed. By this time, I wonder if anyone there even knows it's NOT complete? And, I'm certain the other shows mentioned would garner the type of support WA would require. So, why not at least some sort of regular TV release, WA?

...And, while you're at it, more Huckleberry Hound. I'll even be pleased with only the later ones that have no "music-issues"!

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithb

I'd be in for "Tarzan" for sure.

Me too. That's the one right now that jumps out for me and has been mentioned specifically by the WBA Facebook page as coming. And this will be no shock to anyone that reads my posts regularly, but I'd also pick up the 1st Season of Dr. Kildare should they ever release it. I will admit they own quite a bit of 50's and 60's material I'd have casual interest in, but this is where the present price point they are assigning to their TV releases would prevent me from indulging.


Gary "I'm just not as interested as some are in all their 50's/60's Westerns and Crime shows" O.

 

[TVonDVDJunkie05]

While I am happy to see a company like Shout! Factory picking up series that the big boys abandoned or in some cases never released at all, I have to question their reasoning behind some of the series they have released?! Shows like Parker Lewis Can't Lose, Small Wonder, Mr. Belvedere, My Two Dads and Malcom & Eddie are all niche shows which do not have huge fanbases like The Cosby Show or Cheers which means more than likely that they were not going to be as successful, sales wise. I think its a disservice to the fans of these shows to acquire the rights to the series then put out 1 or 2 releases and stop because they didn't meet your sales expectations. It should have been evident from the beginning that these shows would not sell enough for you to rake in big profits because there are just not enough fans out there who are interested in buying the DVD's. Why bother releasing a show that you know (or should know) that it will not sell well enough to see all seasons released?! In the end all you have is many ticked off fans who may or may not purchase any more products from your company because of the way you have treated a TV series they were interested in.


On the issue of profitability, I would like to know just how much money does Shout! Factory need to make off a product in order to consider it successful and merit further releases?! Are they as greedy as the major studios or are they happy with making only a little bit of money even if it means their customers will be happy because they shows they are interested in have been released?! Bottom line, it all comes down to how much do they value their customers, the major studios only care about profit, is that the bottom line all Shout! Factory is concerned about as well?!


Regarding the Shout! select program, I would say it is both good thing and a bad thing, On the positive side it has given new life to many series that probably would not have seen any further releases but on the down side I think it hinders the sales of some of the more niche shows because the releases are exclusive to the Shout! website and not available in stores. Of course this is not entirely Shout! Factory's fault, in many instances the retailers don't want to carry older series but not being available in stores takes away from impulse buys and I think you are potentially losing out on sales from more casual fans of series. Hardcore fans of a show will hunt down a release where ever its available but I don't think the more casual fans will go to this extent.


I also am not impressed with the amount of material they have released through this program, I would have thought that since they are releasing it directly from their website and thus take in more profit from each sale they would release more and the releases would be more reasonably priced?! Unfortunately that has not been the case, there have been on average 1 or 2 Shout! select releases every month and the prices on some of these shows (Simon & Simon) are way to high IMO for a direct to consumer release. This program is still in its early stages so hopefully things improve as time goes on but so far I am not overly impressed with the volume of releases and pricing.

 

[smithb]

Originally Posted by TVonDVDJunkie05

Regarding the Shout! select program, I would say it is both good thing and a bad thing, On the positive side it has given new life to many series that probably would not have seen any further releases but on the down side I think it hinders the sales of some of the more niche shows because the releases are exclusive to the Shout! website and not available in stores. Of course this is not entirely Shout! Factory's fault, in many instances the retailers don't want to carry older series but not being available in stores takes away from impulse buys and I think you are potentially losing out on sales from more casual fans of series. Hardcore fans of a show will hunt down a release where ever its available but I don't think the more casual fans will go to this extent.

My take is that when a title goes the "Select" route is because they have accepted that it is too risky to go with a major release. By going the Select route on their own site they can keep production runs small and don't risk having to produce a large quantity to satisfy larger distribution when the risk is that the profits may be slow coming. So yes, titles released as Select are specifically targeted for the hardcore fan, which lowers overall sales but also lowers overall risk. It is also known that sales lower as subsequent seasons are released. So it makes sense that the first few seasons of FKB and Mister Ed were widely distributed while the later seasons went "Select". They now had a clear indication of what sales could be and the best way to still release for hardcore fans while again minimizing risk. If they had no Select program there may not have even been these later seasons.

Originally Posted by TVonDVDJunkie05

I also am not impressed with the amount of material they have released through this program, I would have thought that since they are releasing it directly from their website and thus take in more profit from each sale they would release more and the releases would be more reasonably priced?! Unfortunately that has not been the case, there have been on average 1 or 2 Shout! select releases every month and the prices on some of these shows (Simon & Simon) are way to high IMO for a direct to consumer release. This program is still in its early stages so hopefully things improve as time goes on but so far I am not overly impressed with the volume of releases and pricing.

The problem with lowering production runs to minimze risk (and stay in business while releasing further titles) is that the production costs per item goes up requiring a higher price. Higher price and less availability means less sales meaning each sale has to contribute more to recouping initial costs. I'm sure thay have these runs carefully calculated. As I said before, without the Select program some of these titles would have stalled instead of getting as far as they have, or as in some cases even getting to completion.