Any news or reviews on H/K AVR8000 Flagship Receiver? (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Alexander]

Kevin



Welcome to the discussion. I can't quite remember, what did you end up buying a while ago when you were waiting for the HK 7000?

I'm flattered that you remembered ArthurS! Actually, the Sony 777ES stole my heart (plus it was $300 less at the time than the HK 7000). Right now, I'm trying to find a good price on a HK 520 to go in the den.

 

[Kevin Alexander]

Kevin
Welcome to the discussion. I can't quite remember, what did you end up buying a while ago when you were waiting for the HK 7000?

I'm flattered that you remembered ArthurS! Actually, the Sony 777ES stole my heart (plus it was $300 less at the time than the HK 7000). Right now, I'm trying to find a good price on a HK 520 to go in the den.

 

[Robert George]

Oh please. Do you really think a flagship product like the Pioneer Elite 49TX would have a distortion measurement of 9%. If you look at the actual site, it is obvious the formatting of the page has cut off the "0.".

The surround channels have a THD measurement of 0.09%.

As to why Pioneer lists a rating for 6 ohms? Maybe because they want to call attention to the fact that their receiver can handle loads greater than the usual 8 ohms.

 

[DonJ]

This is the reason why H/K is so famous

AVR 7000 H/K rates it at 100 x 5 at .07 thd

Home Theater mags own independent results Harman/Kardon AVR 7000 A/V Receiver: HT Labs Measures



HT Labs Measures: Harman/Kardon AVR 7000 Receiver





The above measurement shows that the AVR 7000's left amplifier channel, with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, began clipping at 0.008% distortion and 131.4 watts. The amp reaches 0.1% distortion at 151.5 watts and 1% distortion at 169.3 watts, as shown above. Into





It had .008 thd at 131.4 watts that is 31.4 percent more watts than they claim at .07 and at way less thd again .008

enough said here is the link

 

[John A. Casler]

Hi Robert,

No, actually I don't think the distortion figures are 9%. If they are, that receiver shouldn't even be on the shelves. The website however lists them as such with little evidence of a typo.

Their manual for that model, says that each channel is 130 watts 20-20, with .09% @ 8 ohms. That is more like it and more than respectable.

I do not however think that Pioneer is trying to display their 6 ohm ability with the 6 ohm numbers. I think that they have over-rated their cheaper recievers power ratings so much that they have to, in some way, "pump up" their flagship's muscle.

If they wished to show the stability of their amps with lower impedance loads they certainly would not have selected 6 ohms, and it certainly could be a performance property befitting an additional, seperate listing.

Since this thread was about HK, I would suggest that their general policy of slightly even "under-rating" is a breath of fresh air in this "inflated" wattage depiction.

Seems like some of the manufacturers are headed back to the IHF ratings days, of "peak" power.

And I am certainly not slamming Pioneer Elite. I think it is very sexy, and rather sophisticated stuff, I just don't compare $4200 receivers with $2800 receivers and expect it to be equal.

John Casler

 

[Robert George]

John:

Point taken on the price difference, although I'm not sure how many people, even owners of this piece, would actually say the 49TX is a "$4200 receiver". I consider Pioneer's MSRP rather inflated, especially considering dealer cost is half of their published MSRP. Certainly I would never have paid anything close to $4200 for this receiver, and I happen to love it. None the less, these are different price categories and the HK is certainly no slouch, regardless of price. I'm aware of HK's reputation with their receiver amps, and obviously the 7000 is underrated.

However, in fairness to Pioneer (not because I have one, but for the sake of accuracy), I'd like to post some test bench numbers from the review of the 49TX in the current isssue of Sound & Vision.

As was noted, Pioneer lists the power output of the 49TX as 130wpc, 20-20K, 0.09%THD @ 8 ohms. S&V measured a single channel driven at 154 watts, 5 channels driven at 148 watts, and 6 channels driven at 144 watts. All at 8 ohms. They also measure THD (1 watt, 8 ohms) at 0.03%, so I suppose Pioneer's rating of 0.09% is a worst-case measurement.

Hardly "pumping up" the numbers, wouldn't you say?

But as you say, this thread is about HK. I only chimed in on the Pioneer as I felt it was being misrepresented. As for why HK is not discussed much on this forum, I don't think there is a particular bias one way or another. Simply that HK is not as popular a brand as, for instance, Denon or Pioneer, or Yamaha, or Onkyo. The main reason is HK is not marketed as aggressively as any of these other major brands which translates to fewer people owning their gear. There just aren't as many of you.

(BTW, the 49TX can be had for as little as $2400 (etronics.com) so it is very close to being a direct competitor to the HK AVR8000 based on street price.)

 

[James D S]

The website however lists them as such with little evidence of a typo.

What kind of evidence would this be? The fact that it is obvious there was a typo is "evidence" enough, no? Sounded like a desperate slam to me. You got caught, move on.

Back to thread:

As a previous HK owner, I can confidently say that anyone choosing to go with an HK solution will not be disappointed. They make kick-ass product. The AVR-8000 is just the latest in a strong line of great receivers.

What's not to like about HK?

 

[John A. Casler]

quote:

================================================

5 channels driven at 148 watts, and 6 channels driven at 144 watts. All at 8 ohms. They also measure THD (1 watt, 8 ohms) at 0.03%, so I suppose Pioneer's rating of 0.09% is a worst-case measurement.

Hardly "pumping up" the numbers, wouldn't you say?

==================================================

Robert,

Now those are numbers that make sense and need no pumping.

quote:

=================================================

(BTW, the 49TX can be had for as little as $2400 (etronics.com) so it is very close to being a direct competitor to the HK AVR8000 based on street price.)

=================================================

I would suggest that the 8000 and the 49TX are direct competitors because they are both flagships,

but,

If you are talking "street pricing, the 49TX is $2400 and the AVR-8000 is $1700. So they are not direct "price" competitors.

I don't think these "drops" are a reflection in value, but more of economic conditions and the competitveness brought about by internet pricing. Both of those price points are very close to regular low volume "dealer cost".

John Casler

 

[John A. Casler]

quote:
==========================================
What kind of evidence would this be? The fact that it is obvious there was a typo is "evidence" enough, no? Sounded like a desperate slam to me. You got caught, move on.
===========================================
James,
I was actually using Pioneer's error to poke a little fun at Arthur's insinuation that the 49TX is a "better" choice.
I conclude that it is just a "choice" generally based on subjective criteria. (looks, features, and percieved performance)
As far as evidence, if one checks the 39TX you will see that the same error has occured. This congruency to the unknowing, might suggest that it is, in fact, accurate.
Only further investigation, and/or general knowledge of distortion numbers might suggest otherwise. And it has not been uncommon in the past for the distortion and power numbers of some of the surround amps to be "less" than the fronts.
I guess you got me in my "desperate slam".
Actually, I like the Pioneer very much, and in no way am I critical of the actual product or it's "real", in system, performance.
This whole thread actually brings to light an interesting view of "brand loyalty" and should someone be a "loyal HK or Pioneer, or Onkyo supporter?
I think many companies strive to build such a following and find it interesting that in such a subjective, yet application specific hobby, that many will put up with certain problems, deficiencies, and other negatives, just because we are "loyal" to the brand.
Anyhow, I agree with you that the 8000 has the promise, (I haven't heard on yet) to be a great unit in that "street price" category.
John Casler

 

[Al_Reb]

Sheesh, had I known posting the numbers for the H/K was like dumping gas on a fire, I would not have done so.
I bought the 8000 for my own reasons. Someone asked some questions about it and I tried to answer them. Posting the numbers was my own stupidity and I will no longer post such things without being asked to do so, sorry.

 

[ColinM]

Al - don't worry about it. Post what you know, tell us what you think, and we will appreciate the info for it is likely you will have helped someone.

These threads attract some very brand-loyal people, and some go ape$#!t if they think their moniker is made to look tarnished.

NO OFFENSE, ANYONE!

- CM

 

[Greg Hamilton]

I'll be pickin up my AVR8000 tonight. Hopefully, I'll be able to add my own opinions tomorrow. My decision to go for the AVR8000 was based on the years of satisfaction the AVR7000 gave me. -gh

 

[John A. Casler]

Greg,

Good selection. I trust if you enjoyed the 7000 the 8000 will continue the tradition.

Looking forward to your impressions.

John Casler

 

[Al_Reb]

Colin wrote:

don't worry about it. Post what you know, tell us what you think, and we will appreciate the info for it is likely you will have helped someone.
These threads attract some very brand-loyal people, and some go ape$#!t if they think their moniker is made to look tarnished.

Thanks for the tip, Colin. I am far from loyal to any brand, I even have some Monster stuff

 

[Al_Reb]

Greg wrote:

I'll be pickin up my AVR8000 tonight. Hopefully, I'll be able to add my own opinions tomorrow. My decision to go for the AVR8000 was based on the years of satisfaction the AVR7000 gave me. -gh

I hope you like it as much as I do. IMO, it is the nicest piece in my HT setup. Caution though, it is really heavy, 53lbs. The dealer kept telling me how heavy it was, but until you pick it up, you can't judge the true weight of it.
Oh, one thing about the OSD, it does not work with the component out. You need to have the video monitor out of the 8000 (#34 in the manual) hooked into a tv input.

 

[Al_Reb]

DOH! I forgot to add that it come with 2 remotes. A main and a ZoneII. The main is lighted, thank god, but for the ZoneII to be used in a different area you will need an IR sensor (any brand will work).
You also can just use the smaller ZoneII remote as your main if you like, but it does not have all the functions as the main remote. And it doesn't have the ability to turn on the OSD.

 

[EricHaas]

The only thing I have ever heard the HK's get knocked for is reliability. If you take a look at trends in receiver reviews over at audioreview.com for example, you will quickly understand what separates receivers that get aggregate ratings like "4.5" and above from those with ratings closer to 4.0. It is rarely ever that people complain about sound quality. In fact, most people seem to like the sound of their receivers or they wouldn't have bought them to begin with. Ocassionally people complain about bad remotes or poorly written manuals, but mainly it is reliability issues. Of course, any make of receiver can have mechanical problems. But when you see 50+ reviews of a product, there is at least a perceived difference if 1 person in 25 has a problem vs. 1 person in 5. I think this is why HK and Marantz have gotten somewhat of a "fringe" reputation on forums like these of late. OTOH, these things go in cycles. Right now Denon seems to be the "golden child" of receivers in these kinds of circles. But that could change overnight if Denon had a few problems with their next line.

 

[Al_Reb]

Eric, I do agree with most of what you said, but as for audioreview.com... well lets just say that I take it with a grain of salt. IMO it has become more of a *bashing* site and some of the reviews are just silly. Like the CAP LOCK STUC OR SUMIN CUZ, MAN THIS ROCS OR SUXA$$....aaahhh!! Egad, how can they expect to be taken seriously.
Just my ¢.02

 

[EricHaas]

Yeah, agreed. You kind of have to mentally weed out the non-serious posts to get a clearer idea. Another thing that can fudge the result the other way is it seems every time someone posts a bad review, others who like the product post 2nd a 3rd reviews to negate the rating of the person who panned it. It kind of makes the numerical average a limited value. However, I place some stock in them when the number of reviews gets high, e.g. 40+ and I don't see too many bogus reviews in there.

 

[Eujin]

Actually, the previous generation of receivers did have its share of problems, but they seem to have been ironed out with the current 320/520/8000 generation. I've had my 320 for a month now and it's been an absolutely dream.