Any "Midnight Cowboy" 16x9 remaster??? (1 Viewer)

[MarcoBiscotti]

Sounds like it'll be a fantastic release, I can't wait!!

 

[Deepak Shenoy]

Heck, now throw in the (one year late) 30th Anniversary edition of Chinatown and I'm one happy camper.

I would love that too but at least the transfer on the original DVD is more than adequate (unlike the other 70's classics that are getting reissued in Feb including Network, Dog Day Afternoon, All the Presidents Men and Midnight Cowboy).

 

[Brett C]

Did any other MGM DVD feature the trailer for this film? Besides the original release of course. It ain't included on this new release.

 

[Dave Mack]

No reviews yet on the SE?
:frowning:

 

[Brent Avery]

Dave - I just watched the new 2 disc last night and I posted some of my " I'm no expert " thoughts on a seperate posting - somehow missed attaching it to this thread.

 

[Dave Mack]

Thanks again!
DVDFile's is up.

 

[Dave Mack]

VERY confusing!
I was all set to run out and grab this today and I just saw DVDcompare's BLISTERING review! "Disgrace of the Year"
review
DVDFile gave it a rather good review but after looking at the screen captures I'm flabbergasted. Brent appears right. IMHO the SE looks even LESS detailed than the original R1, anamorphic notwithstanding. And excessive combing? Ugh.
I've been waiting on this title for YEARS and it seems like MGM, (Sony?) screwed the pooch. :frowning:
I'm gonna get the PAL, anamorphic and apparently MUCH better PQ.
:frowning: d

 

[Andrew Bunk]

Dave,

I have this saved on my HD-DVR from HDnet's showing earlier in the month. I also have the new DVD. While they are two different resolutions, I'll try and do some A-B testing.

Very disappointed to see the combing. I bought this blind, because most of the recent MGM SE's have been very good. Well, at least I have the HD print-hopefully that won't have combing issues too.

 

[Dave Mack]

Cool Andrew, Thanks!

 

[Andrew Bunk]

Well Dave and all, I just watched this, and I have to say I was pretty impressed given the age of the film.

First off, I did not see ANY combing. And I know what it looks like, as I remember seeing it on some Babylon 5 stuff, The Meaning Of Life, and a couple of other things. I paid close attention to the scenes shown on DVDBeaver, and I didn't see it. I verified my setup was set to progressive, and plus I just had my set professionally re-calibrated a couple of weeks ago. I have a 57" Toshiba 16:9 set and a Pioneer DV-563A player.

The picture looked somewhat soft at times, but other parts looked really good. Funny thing is, compared to the HD print I had saved, the only major difference was the HD one had a little more detail, but also more visible grain.

I have not seen the original MGM flipper release, but I have to say, I thought this was a pretty nice presentation. I've never seen the film before, so I can't speak to what it should look like, but it looked natural and did not appear overly processed.

I'm not sure if DVDBeaver got an early screener copy that had problems, or their gear had isues, but again, I did not see combing.

And even though I'm not a big special features fan, I will most likely spin the second disc soon, as I really found the film interesting. Had to laugh at Bob Balaban's character-it didn't click with me until I saw his name in the credits.

So Dave, take a chance and hopefully you won't be disappointed either.

EDIT: I just re-read the DVDBeaver review, and it said "constant combing". Something hasd to be wrong with their review disc or a setting with their gear. I hope Gary gives the retail disc a spin.

 

[Rich Malloy]

VERY confusing!
I was all set to run out and grab this today and I just saw DVDcompare's BLISTERING review! "Disgrace of the Year"

Do you mean DVD Beaver? I saw that. Yikes. Non-progressively transferred and the combing in that screen-grab with lots of motion is about the worst I've seen. In that respect, it looks almost as bad as some of the R2/PAL Rohmer titles or the French "See the Sea/Regarde le mer" DVD. Ugh. And damn! :frowning:
They do note that these types of artifacts aren't as noticeable on smaller tube TVs (is that really true?), so that might explain some of the differing opinions.
I just don't understand how something as basic as a progressive transfer can't be done on a movie as important as this. I know it requires transferring frame-by-frame, but that's routinely done these days (save for some of the smaller studio releases).

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Maybe it's incorrectly flagged...and maybe the DVD beaver deinterlacing uses flags rather than 3-2 cadence (like Faroudja chips). That could make all the difference to whether or not combing is a problem.

 

[Andrew Bunk]

Good point Dave. I'm not sure how my player handles deinterlacing, but I know I didn't see combing on my copy.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Maybe it's incorrectly flagged...and maybe the DVD beaver deinterlacing uses flags rather than 3-2 cadence (like Faroudja chips). That could make all the difference to whether or not combing is a problem.

We had a big discussion of that when the 2-disc edition of Leon: The Professional came out (search for it in the Reviews Archive forum). Sounds like they may have repeated the mistake here. Players that check the cadence on the fly rather than reading the flags won't show the combing.
Based on the screencaps at DVDBeaver (I don't really trust screencaps to be accurate in general), the new release doesn't look less detailed than the first R1 edition. The earlier edition looks like it's been sharpened. (Look closely -- there is no picture info in the earlier edition caps that isn't also in the caps from the new edition. It just appears sharper.)

 

[Andrew Bunk]

Aaron,
I was just reading the Leon thread (link here), and I see that you and I have the same player, assuming you still use the Pioneer DV-563A. I haven't watched the Leon Deluxe yet, but like you with Leon, I did not see any frame by frame issues with Midnight Cowboy. I have a Philips and Toshiba in the house that are also prog-enabled, and I will check it out on those players as well.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Yep, still using the DV-563A. I had to examine the Leon disc using computer tools to verify what people were seeing.
That player was a fantastic value. SACD *and* DVD-A for $150? Can't beat that with a stick! (Especially after paying $700 for the DV-05 that the DV-563A replaced!)

 

[Andrew Bunk]

I love it too. I actually bought it because I read in various places that it handles red better and doesn't have the "chroma bug".

I really hope it stays healthy until I finally buy into HD disc next year. Even then, I would likely still use it for standard DVD.

 

[Dave Mack]

Interesting... Thanks Andrew!
My old player is a JVC that is flag reading so it would have trouble most likely. My new Oppo is Faroudja so theoretically it should have no problem. Might give it a chance! I can rent it first. The PAL still looks better in those pics IMHO. The lettering on the cook's cap seem much more defined, the new SE looks like a blur.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

I actually bought it because I read in various places that it handles red better and doesn't have the "chroma bug".

I bought mine because Gregg Loewen came over to calibrate my new HD set and thought it would be a good time for me to upgrade to a progressive-capable player. We went to Best Buy, and he picked up the deck (I think it was the last one) and put it in my arms.
Just like when the doctor handed me my son in the delivery room!

 

[Dave Mack]

A staff reviewer from DVDTalk had this explanation for the combing...
"All DVDs are interlaced. There is no such thing as a "progressive" or "non-progressive" transfer. However, when the discs are authored they are encoded with a series of flags that instruct the display how to assemble the progressive frames. If the disc is mis-flagged as "Video" when it is actually a film-based source, a flag-reading deinterlacing chip will construct the frames wrong and you'll wind up with serious combing artifacts.
Since the vast majority of DVDs contain at least some bad flagging, a good motion adaptive deinterlacer will disregard the flags and analyze the cadence of the video signal instead. This makes the whole issue of how the disc is flagged irrelevant.
I say all this having not seen the Midnight Cowboy DVD, and have no idea what's really the source of the problem..."
Am I off or is he slightly wrong with this? I thought there were no flags for VIDEO mode and I thought that you did indeed transfer films progressively?
My old JVC player could force FILM mode for badly flagged DVDs but if I tried that on a transfer that was not progressive like one of the versions of ZOMBI 2 that came out a couple of years it was then comb city.